Book coach Ben Gioia reveals the self-publishing mistakes costing experts clients, income, and years, and the five-week method that fixes all of it.
GROWTH PILLAR: Marketing & Branding
WHO THIS IS FOR: Coaches · Consultants · Solopreneurs · SMB owners building authority
WHAT THEY'LL GAIN: A clear path from book idea to published authority — with a strategy that attracts clients, protects your IP, and generates revenue before the book is even finished.
Most business experts have a book idea sitting in their head. The problem isn't talent or knowledge, it's the trap of waiting for the perfect time, or worse, trusting the wrong publisher and losing everything.
Ben Gioia is the founder of Influence With A Heart and Leadership Awake Press. He helps coaches, consultants, and small business owners go from idea to published book in as little as five weeks — using a method that builds authority and attracts clients before the manuscript is even done.
In this episode, Ben breaks down why traditional publishing is a trap for most experts, how professional self-publishing keeps you in full control of your IP, royalties, and creative direction, and why the single highest-leverage move you can make is talking to your ideal clients before you write a single word.
He shares his Book Ecosystem Mapping process — a big-picture session that looks at your audience, your content, your publishing path, and what you do with the book once it's in the world. He also explains how to use the book as a bridge to coaching, consulting, speaking, and five- and six-figure contracts — sometimes before the final draft is done.
Ben wrote, produced, printed, and shipped his first book in six and a half weeks after promising 130 signed copies to a Stanford audience. That one event turned into three more bookings and a speaking trip to Sydney. His approach is practical, calm, and built around one core idea: a light mind is the right mind to write.
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NEXT STEPS
Bernie (00:22)
So, question to the audience. How do you write a book that actually brings clients without wasting time, money, or burning you out?
That's what our guest will be talking about in this episode. He'll break down the biggest book mistakes experts make, how to protect your intellectual property, also called IP, avoid expensive publishing traps, and launch with momentum. So your book builds authority and attracts opportunities before it's even finished. If you've been sitting on a book idea, and this is your this is your nudge, listen in, take notes, and start moving, and your message from someday to now.
Our guest today is Ben Gioia
He's the founder of Influence with the Heart and Leadership Awake Press, where he helps purpose-driven consultants, coaches, and small business owners turn their expertise into a powerful client-attracting book in just five weeks. While many experts wait for the perfect time to publish.
Ben teaches them how to build authority and attract high-level opportunities before their book is even finished, leading to stages like Harvard, paid engagements with companies like Google, and five and six-figure contracts. four-time international best selling author, Ben has trained hundreds of millionaires at Stanford and even created a mindfulness and empathy based video game used by twenty thousand employees worldwide. His work blends strategy, storytelling,
And heart-centered leadership to help experts step out of invisibility and into meaningful influence. After surviving four near-death experiences in just 72 hours during a trek in India, Ben returned with a deeper conviction life is short, your message matters, and the world needs your voice now, not someday. Ben, absolute pleasure. I'm I'm glad you're on this side of the fence from India. Not that going to India was a problem, but you know, four times. Wow. Welcome.
What's your favorite quoter saying?
Ben (02:07)
I think on that, so first of all, thank you for being here, having me here, Bernie. And thank you for the invitation. It's it's always a pleasure to spend some time with you. I think my my quote during that India time was, I'm not gonna die, I'm not gonna die, I'm not gonna die. and you know, that was several years ago. So today my favorite quote is one that I wrote myself, and it is a light mind is the right mind to write. So once again, a light mind is the right mind.
to write.
Bernie (02:33)
a little melody in that whole that whole sentence. Shakespeare happening.
Ben (02:36)
Thank you. Well, I I appreciate that very much. You know, on the the second time I was in India, I had the really fascinating, painful experience of doing a nine-day hike with blisters on my Achilles tendons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. basically mi misery for about a hundred and forty-four thousand steps, I think is how I calculated it. But from that experience, I ultimately discovered.
Yeah, which is something that our friend the historical Buddha has been teaching, right? Or taught and passed down, right? That difference between pain and suffering. Right. We as human beings, we will experience pain. That's part of, you know, that that's in the contract for this existence. But the suffering part is optional, can be reduced, can often be eliminated. So I discovered that in India way back when, and then over the years, have applied that to the book writing process to really help people understand.
that you don't have to suffer for or through the process of your book.
Bernie (03:31)
Wow, or get blisters on your Achilles' tendon and go for a long walk in in sweltering heat I so waiting to publish was dangerous is is kind of the point being made, or that you're highlighting based on on your intro. Why is it dangerous to wait? Is it is it more like the the student that goes, I've finished high school, maybe it'll take a year off, hey? Is that that type of scenario?
Ben (03:53)
It could be. you know, although frankly I wish after high school I took a year off. Right. That that that would have been quite nice. No, I I encourage people, hurry up and write your book, but don't rush. Right. That fine balance, that fine dance, because you know, the power and the efficacy of one's book, right, to open the doors to clients, referral partners, strategic partners, and first and foremost to make an impact. And for me, you know, not only
Do I recommend get your book into the world as soon as possible? But actually start leveraging the book while you're still writing it. Right? Use the book as a reason to have conversations with your ideal clients so you can talk about the book that you're writing, right? And know from the proverbial horse's mouth, your ideal clients, what actually to put in the book, right? So you don't actually take a guess when you're publishing the book. You know it's going to work before you bring it into the world.
Bernie (04:44)
You you just triggered about th four or five questions automatically. You know, the the scroll inside. ask this question next. so is this a little bit of pay attention to the ego? You think you know what your customer wants, but check as as you build. you know, like like when you build a house, you know, the plan says this and it ain't gonna work because there's a boulder in the way or a tree in the way, and you don't want to cut the tree or move the boulder, right? so is that is that an ego check?
Ben (05:09)
Yeah, it is an ego check. It's also a best practices, just you know, marketing is critical for all of us to do in our businesses, right? But to do it from a place of integrity, from a place of service. And one of the highest levels of service you can provide is actually to talk to your ideal clients and say, Hey, what are your challenges? What are you struggling with? What are you trying to achieve? What's been working? What hasn't been working? Right. And give them a chance to.
give voice to their challenges and be a really, really good listener, because that in and of itself can provide a transformation.
Bernie (05:43)
So when you say the other question I had as we were unfolding this, you say book, are we talking print? Are we talking electronic? mixed bag?
Ben (05:51)
Yes, we're we're talking mixed to to use your term, we are talking mist mixed bag. So so
Bernie (05:57)
Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Ben (05:58)
that's okay. Thank you. So these days, thanks to our friend the internet, right, and technologies that are available to people like you and me, when we bring our book to the world, it's easy and not any more expensive to provide it as softcover paperback, h hardcover paperback and ebookslash Kindle.
And you want to make sure to do all three, partially because your readers will choose different ways to consume the book. But number two, and this is what is most important to this. So if you're listening, keep listening right now, right? Get your book into people's hands. Right? Give it away as much as you can, even if you're spending a few books on the book, right? It's totally worth it because your book will open the doors. Your book.
will position you as an expert or authority long before people even have read it. People might might not even read your book and assume that you're an expert in your stuff because you wrote a book about it.
Bernie (06:53)
Interesting. So we we again from your from reading the bio and the IP, the intellectual property. So are you at risk at losing your it's almost like if you had a secret sauce. It's just like you as a business. And assuming that you the persona is not just the only secret sauce, because if you're looking to scale, right, you want to have a standard operating procedure so that you can
r rinse and repeat this with other other people. How do you manage the IP so that it doesn't get lost in the wild? Because some people go, you know, the the greatest how is the expression is the greatest form of flattery is mimicking you or coping you.
Ben (07:29)
Yeah. So so thank you for asking. There's a a few layers of answer to that. so on the one hand, you know, invariably people, you know, in mimicking, people steal people's stuff, right? Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. So that's just gonna be, you know, that's just part of the world we live in, right? Everything's visible, almost everything's visible. So of course that's gonna happen. And you wanna do the best you can to protect your intellectual property.
Right, your books, your ideas, you know, your courses, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So the biggest way you can do that with your book is to not, keyword here is not, use a traditional publisher to publish your book. Okay. So what I mean by this, when I say traditional publisher, most people who are in our generation and nearby when they think of publishing a book, they think of what we all grew up with, right? I want to get.
My book published, I need to seek out a publisher. I might need an agent. I have to create a book proposal. And then I have to shop the book around and hope, hope, hope that somebody picks my book. And traditional publishing is still out there, but for people like you and me, for the impact we want to make, the way we want to do our business, the freedom we want to have, it's much better to not use a traditional publisher because with the traditional publisher, as soon as you can't sign the contract, they immediately become the owner of your book.
Right. So literally you give up full rights to your book as soon as you sign the contract. So that means creative control, strategic control, timeline control, business control, editorial control. Ultimately you have no control. Hopefully they're asking you for your input, right? Because it's your book, but technically they don't even really have to do that. So much better than traditional publishing 99% of the time, and that's not hyperbole.
is what I like to call professional self-publishing. Right. So you've probably heard the term self-publishing. It's it's a misnamed, unfortunately, it's a misnamed process because self-publishing does not mean publish it yourself. It does not mean do it yourself. Right. Like don't fix your own electric, don't fix your own septic tank, right? Get a professional publishing team to the work to publish your book.
but you want to retain the ownership, the royalties, IP, everything under your accounts. So professional self-publishing is the way to go.
Bernie (09:47)
I just as you said, you know, you don't fix your own and I'm thinking at 220 volts. I mean here in North America, right, which is the the amperage or the voltage for let's say a dryer or stove and yeah, just one screwdriver across you just you shorten the tip of the screwdriver if you short out the screen. anyway, I segue and I'm coming back. So th the book itself, are we are we talking about book like fiction, nonfiction, mixed bag? Is is it does does this matter?
if you have an idea, like if you have a Genesis, let's say you're the new Tolkien, right? And you
Ben (10:17)
Right.
Bernie (10:18)
wanna sp you wanna spin a tail. Is this the space for you or is is it more for the coaches and the entrepreneurs?
Ben (10:23)
So historically it's more often for the coaches, the entrepreneurs, the consultants, et cetera, right? So a book that positions one as an expert, helps to tell the story, share the message, and opens the door to the relationships that turn into clients, partners, and referrals. So yes, that's true.
So traditionally, more often for coaches, consultants, leaders, et cetera, to have a book that positions them an expert as an expert, gives them them an opportunity to share their message, tell their story, develop their relationships that turn into business and impact. But and in this day and age, there are many different kinds of books, right? It's not just fiction and nonfiction, right? There are business fables.
There are memoirs with business lessons in them, right? There's all sorts of configurations. And breaking in, especially with a with a fiction book and working toward high numbers of book sales is really difficult and really expensive. Right. So entering that space or working in that space and
Operating a little bit differently will often open the doors. Like if you have a fiction book, let's say a science fiction book, right? Why not develop relationships with event coordinators for science fiction events? Right. See if you can get your book into the event. So of course, try to sell in the bookstore. But selling books is difficult, expensive, time-consuming, and
doesn't always, especially with business book, doesn't yield big outcomes. Right. So I I say whenever you can use a book to develop or deepen a relationship versus just selling the book, go for the relationship.
Bernie (11:54)
So my a quick analogy is then that, you know, the the fiction or you know, just you know, broad public appeal, it's kind of a shotgun approach versus a laser focused approach on, you know, I'm looking for this type of clients. So I'm g I'm getting that piece. As I unfold into the book a little bit deeper and other things come to mind because it depends on the intent of the book, right? Is is it to does it put position you and then what?
versus does it position you and here's a course versus by the way here is something that can be of service to you and you can tap into it and and where there might be a subscriber fee attached to it. How do you how do you shape that book? So if someone rolls up on your on your at your at your door and says, I I'm here I got me an idea and I I got a story to tell and I I have a way to help a helping hand, how do you help take that person going, okay, and the next step is
Aside from writing and getting it getting the process flow and getting the feedback, how do you strategize, you know, the kind of the end game of the book itself? Not necessarily your end game, but the end game of the book.
Ben (12:58)
Yeah, thank you. That that's a fantastic question. So a few pieces of that. one certainly, and this is worth me repeating, is having conversations with one ideal one's ideal clients, right? To get that clarity because that always turns into good stuff, you know. Clarity for the book, clients, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The other part is to think if your bri your book is like a bridge or a stepping stone, right? you know, what
kind of things, what kind of outcomes are you looking for? Like is it coaching as a client? Is it consulting? Is it mentoring? Is it speaking? so, you know, yes to all of those things. right. Think, you know, and and in the book, you want to give your reader, who most of the time is your ideal client in in this context, you want to give them a sense of what it's like to work with you. Right. So you help people go from A to Z.
Right. How do you give them the experience of going from A to Z in the spaces of your book without overwhelming them, without giving away the farm, and without helping, without them thinking, my God, there's 26 steps A to Z. You're like, hey, let me show you how this works in five steps or you know, in this four-part framework or whatever the case may be. Okay, because having spoken to people about their challenges regarding the topic of your book, you get the language that they're using.
Right. And you get the clarity and you weave that into the book so they really understand, your reader really understands that you get them, right? And then you couple that with giving them an experience of what it's like to work with you. Right. Using case studies as stories in your book. Right. Speaking to your own results, not as a way to boast and say, look at all the things I did. Right. But look at the kind of results that.
Mary's organization received, they came to me with this kind of challenge, right? We identified this, we implemented this. Here's what happened immediately, and here's what I'm hearing from Mary 18 months later. Those kinds of things.
Bernie (14:51)
You're very fine that you have a client and I've I've come across other podcast guests and what they do they have someone who's has the essence of brilliance over here. And in this particular case, they help them talk to the finance people versus the end user people. And each each has a certain language that that fits. The person is is the the genius. if they start if they were to approach the the funding source, they maybe you know, they get a couple blinks and then you know.
No, no coin, right? And and so there has to be like an interpreter in the middle of it. Can you provide that? Do you provide that clarity so that if you know because every every trade, every every profession, every even when I'm writing an email and I realize afterwards, you know, I write it in in my in my headspace, and then sometimes I'll go to Chat GPT, can you provide some clarity in it? And going, same words, except just you know moved around a bit. How do you how do you get that
the message comes across without losing without losing the person because if you wanted to work with me, right, you still have to have or I'm gonna be me, right, when I show up. So
Ben (15:56)
Absolutely.
Bernie (15:57)
how how do you how do you balance that so that the message is clear, but at the same time you're not lost in translation.
Ben (16:03)
Yeah, thank you. So I'm gonna repeat myself again. A lot of the clarity comes from the conversations with one's ideal clients, right? Like, you know, if I can say to my author, my client, hey, how are they describing their challenge? Like what's the biggest stuff, right? So, you know, that then we can both agree, yeah. Here's the language, here's what this person is talking about, those kinds of things. And then I do a a quite a deep I do a process called a book ecosystem mapping session at
before we even start writing the book. And we really look at the big picture of the book, hence the word ecosystem. So not only the audience and the content, but looking at the challenges and the opportunities about writing, you know, what it really takes to execute a high quality book and do it fast, right? Because we want to get it out there. We want to make an impact. But looking at the publishing, looking at, okay, now your book is in the world. What the heck do you do with it? Right. Looking at those things, the ecosystem ones, but we start there.
And then I have an opportunity to really understand this person's vision, their idea for the book, all these kinds of things. And I ask them a ton of questions to really, really under for me to understand, yeah, and to get their language. And you know, there there is a little bit of of a dance with certain people sometimes, in that you know, they have some genius idea or genius essence.
And you know, they don't quite have the words for it, or they have their words just like Bernie are giving voice to. And I'll just keep asking them and keep saying, okay, you know, I don't, I don't quite understand. You know, and I just I don't not poking and prodding and and trying to be a pain in the butt, but yeah, just kind of keep unpacking it and keep unpacking it. And then at some point I say, well, you know, is it this? And they'll go, Yeah. And I go, Okay. Right, let's keep that. Here's our North Star for the book.
Yeah. Right. And it's not, you know, glorishy marketing language that's hyperbole and all that's kind of, you know, how do we articulate the topic of one's book? And I say this to my authors, two sentences or less, right? Writing this kind of book for these kind of people to create this kind of outcome or some variation in there. Right. Because we want to be able to speak the truth when we speak the topic of our book.
So when we reach out to our ideal clients and say, hey, I'm writing a book about such and such a topic, right? The description of the book resonates with those ideal clients. Right. Not specifically, I'm gonna buy that book, but yeah, I'd totally be willing to chat with you, Ben, about about the book. That sounds great.
Does that make sense?
Bernie (18:29)
no, you're you're you're announcing and you're you're your your great clarity. just a as a s a sidebar, when I some of the questions I'll ask is because if if the audience and so I'll take the audience perspective. Okay, I don't understand this piece. And and some some some stuff, so that's that's why you might have seems like he's circling back. Well it's it's because
Ben (18:49)
It's okay, yeah.
Bernie (18:52)
So for the person that has that has the idea.
And has the, you know, I want to write a book. What do we delay? Like what have you found that's happening? And and what are the triggers that, you know, if if they go, I want to write a book, I'm not there. What are the flags that should tell them to go? let's reach out to Ben and see if this is if this has some traction.
Ben (19:13)
Yeah, that that that's a great question. recently, I appreciate you asking me this today. Recently there's been a bit of serendipity where several people have said to me, you know, about a week ago I wasn't thinking about writing a book and then I saw some of your content and I realized I want to write a book. Right. So so that's been fun to have, you know, explore that with some people. other people sometimes they're following my content, sometimes they've just
stumbled upon me where somebody made a referral. And I spend a lot of my, how shall I say, content delivery time, teaching time, right? Not just for my clients, but you know, anytime I'm bringing content out into the world, just continually trying to help people understand that it's totally doable to do a book. Right. You know, that we all grew up, not all, not we all, many, many of us grew up thinking it's like, you got to become an alcoholic to write a book, right? Like well, you know,
Dylan Thomas at Ernest Hemingway, right? All of these models, right? And and you know, it's not true, first and foremost. And my God, I'm not a good writer. Well, you're not a good writer, then use your voice to dictate parts of your book, right? If not the whole book, because in five minutes of of dictation, and hey, you're an expert in your stuff, you know what the heck you're talking about. In five minutes, you can have 750 words.
And 750 words is 3% of 160 page book.
So you start going, huh, I can actually dictate a rough draft of my 160-page book in 33 days.
Right. And and then suddenly the doors open in such a big way.
Bernie (20:41)
So have you found in the process, are there any points where people gone, I can do my own book and then they kind of shove off the dock and they're in a leaky boat. that ends up they end up making mistakes that hurt them in the long in the long term, in the long game, right? or they they're giving away the IP, which we've kind of already touched on. Are are there any really costly mistakes that some people have made that you've seen?
Ben (21:05)
yeah, so many. I mean I'm I'm and I'm laughing, you know, because cause I'm I'm sad for them. Right. so one tremendous mistake is not talking to your ideal clients about the book. Right. Big surprise that I'm saying that. Another big mistake is using a traditional publisher. Another big mistake is using a publisher and not reading the contract in depth, clearly, completely.
And then recognizing that, the publisher is only publishing the book, which most publishers do, but they're not providing any marketing, any strategy, any launch support, any business development, any revenue creation, right? So for me, I say to people, hey, if you're gonna get your book done, get a complete solution to the book, right? Get the business development, the writing, the editing, the publishing, the launch, the strategy, the whole kind of thing. You know, get the whole pizza pie.
Right. Because there are plenty of people out there who are like, here's this slice of pizza, and we swear it's gonna feed your whole family, and we wanna charge you twenty-five thousand bucks for it or more, and nothing. Right? Just crick crickets on Amazon, and it's so disheartening. And I say to people, you know, you make a mistake with your book, right? You can lose 10 years and millions of dollars in opportunity cost. Yeah.
Bernie (22:16)
What I do fold artwork into this thing too? Because if something comes out and it looks like a brick, you gotta make it look pretty, right? you gotta put some eyeballs on there and some you know, frills. and I mean I'm joking, obviously it's not gonna be a brick, it's gonna be a statue, right? But what what do you do you provide s a source around that too?
Ben (22:32)
Yeah, yeah. So so you know one one version of of that is several some most times people come to me for my help when they have an idea for the book, right? So way at the beginning of the process or they have a little bit written, right? Every once in a while somebody comes in the middle of the process, and then every once in a while somebody comes and they're like, Ben, I have a manuscript. Like, can you publish it? And I look at it and I'm like, Not yet. Right.
And and we have to really put the brakes on it. And they're so excited because they've worked so hard and they've done a great job on creating the content for the book, right? But probably because most of the time this happens, they haven't had the conversations with their ideal clients. Right. So I will stop them and implore them, you know, gently yell at them to go do that and make sure they're not missing anything, right? Right. They're not putting things that don't need to be in there. And
They're using the opportunity strategically to develop relationships that can turn into, you know, revenue and partnerships and all that good kind of stuff.
Bernie (23:30)
So what's the typical life cycle of the Genesis to hi I'm an expert, I want to write of touch a touch base with Ben. And yeah, yeah, that's a ticket. And to ta-da, you know, I I mean the book's evolution in itself is already part of the marketing strategy, you know, and affirmation that you know you're you're on the right track to completion. And regardless whether you're doing a course, a survey,
Whatever the case might be, what's that life cycle look like?
Ben (23:58)
Gosh, so several answers. Yeah, thank you. So several answers to that. yeah, what one is that you know I have some clients who you know I've been chatting with poking, you know, for four or five years. Right. And then I get a message and they're like, Ben, I'm ready. Right. So the the the suddenly the time comes, right? So there's some some of those people
and I'm not trying to classify or judge nothing like that at all, but the but there's some people do it like that. And then there's some people who I encounter and and they all of a sudden they're like, okay, I gotta do it. You know, either because they have a driving internal feeling that comes up, it's like, I gotta do the thing, or they're out there doing business development and they're recognizing like as a speaker or as a consultant that for positioning and for being selected for work.
They need to have the book. Right. It it's, you know, it's almost like you know, you gotta wear the uniform, right? You gotta have the book as a speaker consultant. And and of course, this is not yeah, every single person all the time, but it helps so much, right? Because you know, we human beings, we have book, book, a capital B book, right, embedded in our psyches, right? Because it was like stories around the fire.
Right. And then some cave paintings. And then somebody was like, let's make a couple of books, right? Let's, you know, do a little papyrus. And then, you know, it got into books. And then, you know, books were the thing for, I don't know, was it a thousand years, several hundred years? I I can't remember when, you know, when Gutenberg had his day. but but that that that that assumption, if you will, that that that knee-jerk reaction, like, you know, hey, I just wrote a book. you wrote a book, you must know something.
Right. People just assume, right? There's a this fantastic story quite a few years ago of a woman wrote a book called The Complete Guide to Everything That Men Know About Women. Okay, and the book is completely blank.
Bernie (25:49)
Well, the fact you can recognize a woman is part of it. If if you have the ability to discern that much, you know at least one thing.
Ben (25:56)
Very, very okay, fair, fair enough. and she made, I can't remember if she made a million bucks from the book or sold a million books. Either way, you know, tremendous, tremendous success at that point for her. I don't recommend writing a blank book, right? Because we have messages to share and stories to you know bring out into the world and and but the the that we can piggyback or leverage the inherent power of book, capital B.
Yeah. And what I teach my authors, I keep talking about this conversations about the book before the book is done. When you enter that conversation, literally you get on the phone and you're coming onto the phone as the author of the book, even though the book isn't written yet. And so the person you're talking to thinks you're the author because you're the author of the forthcoming book. So they assume you know something about something because you're an author.
Bernie (26:46)
So is this is this also how you get the five to six figure engagements, public speaking engagements then? And how absolutely how do you how do you merge it up? Do you I've talked to Ben, now I gotta go find me a publicist, or do I need to find me because it's you you just you've just said something earlier when you're talking about right, you know your stuff, but you don't know all the other stuff. You know about the other stuff, but you don't know it in depth. It's sort of like if you start a business, you have to have an accountant, you have to have a lawyer, you know, depending on what you're doing.
So I I'm I'm in I'm in Ben's carrying arms and guidance and I'm spinning the dial and we're about you know we're about to go wheels up and and in the air. What's the next step? Like how how do you transition there?
Ben (27:27)
Yes. So the the first step is the conversations with the ideal clients. the way I teach it is 12 questions, about 20 minutes. Question eleven is the revenue question. And it's it's simply, hey, you know, after the book, yeah, da-da-da-da-da, would you like to hang out some more? Right. It's some version of that. It's not suddenly a sales pitch, but it's just a logical.
Next conversation. Hey, now that we've spoken about this book and about this topic that we both care deeply about, for example, after the book, if I do a workshop, do you think that might be something that would be supportive for your team? Yeah, that that I Ben, that actually would be. cool. Fantastic. Well, you know, I got a little bit more work to do on the book, but why don't I circle back in about three, four weeks? I'll have, I'll have, you know, I should be through the the final draft at that point, and then I can let you know.
what I'm thinking about the the workshop at that point. How does that sound? Right. So so that kind of approach, collegial peer-to-peer. I have clients who've gotten five figure workshops from doing that, six figure consulting fees, fifty thousand dollar coaching programs, promises of different kinds of partnerships, media appearances, all kinds of things. Right. Some of the sometimes the checked in clear, as it were,
You know, for quite a few months from the conversation, because maybe that person's ideal client is a big organization and very often, you know, negotiating with them, getting the the agreement in place, then getting them to pay you, that could take nine months, but you know, the seed of that started nine months before. Right. So so Bernie, when you introduced me today and we talked about the the video game, right? I put up when I was frantic so
Let me back this up a little bit. 2016, I had an opportunity to speak at Stanford University. I don't know how the hell they found me, but somebody reached out and was like, hey Ben, do you want to speak at Stanford? And I'm like, yes, of course I do. And they're like, great. And we figure out the curriculum. We signed the contract. And I said, Great. I'm really excited to come speak. By the way, I'm going to show up with autographed copies of my brand new book for all of the participants. So like 130 free books. Right? The audience is coming literally from Sydney, Australia.
I'm like they're coming from the other side of the world. Let me make this special. Great. The event planner says, thank you so much. They're going to love it. I said, you're welcome. I hung up the phone and I went, crap, I have to write that book right now.
Bernie (29:44)
Gestation, gestation, a rapid gestation.
Ben (29:47)
my goodness, so so rapid gestation. I was literally pulling it, pulling the plant from the ground. so from the promise to when I had to deliver the books and deliver the presentation, I had six and a half weeks.
Yeah. So I wrote, produced it, produced, printed, and shipped the book in six and a half weeks, got the book back, signed them all. the event went really well. The event planning company hired me three more times, twice at Stanford, I think once at University of Washington. The audience company hired me the following year to speak in Sydney, Australia, because every single person in the company had a copy of my book. Right.
Don't sell books from the back of the room as a speaker. Give everybody a book.
I hit
Yeah, yeah.
Bernie (30:27)
It you know, you just you you touched on it when you realize, hey, I have X number of weeks, six weeks to ta-da, here's a book and signed. And is there an issue sometimes you find with some people? It's like when you're getting married, right? It's it's a very everybody's really positive about it, but through the day of the the anxiety levels build up, you know, and depending on on on the dynamics of people involved and you know how much hoopla that's coming into play, the stress levels go up.
do you find that they're how do you launch without going I've just you know I'm just exhausted I've just drained myself and not in a good way. It's one thing to drain yourself in a happy moment, but it's another one that, you know, I'm happy, but my gosh, you know, I've lost a pound of flesh out of the deal.
Ben (31:08)
Totally. Yep. Yep. Yep. So that's a fantastic question. So I approach that in in three ways. So the first mind, first one goes back to what we said at the beginning of this conversation, right? A light mind is the right mind to write, right? A light mind is the right mind to do pretty much everything, to lead, to have difficult conversations, you know, to navigate grief, like all of it. And the way I help my audience, pardon me, my authors have a light mind is I teach them a smiling meditation.
And I remind them to smile literally all the time throughout the day, right? Because we are h when we're happy, we smile, of course, but we can make ourselves happier and
So one of the things I teach my authors to do is to meditate, to do a smiling meditation and to smile as much as possible throughout the day. And you listener, viewer, can do this too. Literally, the more you smile, the better hap your life will be, the better your business will be, right? Because we smile when we're happy, but we also can become happy and lighten our mind by smiling. There's a neurobiological feedback loop that works really well. And this is so important because invariably with one's book, you are stirring the pot.
So there are going to be emotions and memories and feelings and uncomfortableness and all kinds of things coming up. And for most people, that's the stuff that stops them. That's the stuff that drives them to the bottle, or, you know, whatever else to dampen the pain. And the trick here, as it were, or the tactic here, as it were, is to smile, relax, like literally do what the Buddha taught. Don't get involved with the impersonal experience that's popping up, right? Just let it be over there and you know.
Sooner or later it burns itself out. So that's number one. Number two is I recommend to my authors and anybody who will listen to me that that they strategically separate their book release from their bestseller activity. Right. So a lot of people are like, I'm releasing my book. And the next day they're like, help me be a bestseller, right?
And what happens is they lose a big strategic opportunity because it's two events that they've squished into one, right? And to the point of being burnt out, tired, ragged, you know, all the words, you've just written a freaking book. Right. You might have been carrying that book around with you for 40 years, 17 years, right, in your heart, in your head.
Right, that that, you know, psychic burden and the privilege of the book and all the things, and you finally bring it into the world. So the first strategic move after you bring in the wor the book into the world is take a vacation.
And I'm not kidding. I say that to all my office. I'm like, take a vacation the day after you release the book, because there's plenty of work to do coming forward, plenty of opportunity to use utilize the book. I mean, years, if not decades, you know, into the future. Right now, take a break. If you can't go on vacation the day after, just sit around the house and watch a lot of Netflix, maybe get a massage, right?
But like chill out, veg out the whole thing, and then get back into the book. And then instead of doing the bestseller launch right at the same time, do it like two to four months after you release the book. Because in those two to four months, which I call a smart gap, you can send copies of books peop to people, get books into people's hands, develop relationships with people, get on podcasts, right? Do events, all those kinds of things, and then
Two to four months later, you have all these relationships built. Maybe you have a already a couple of new clients. And then you have an array of people who will be available to support you when you do your bestseller activity two to four months later, and so much more happens because people often forget this about book launches and bestseller launches. Of course, it's about, you know, bestseller launch. Of course, there's the status of being a bestseller. Great.
But more importantly, it's the relationships that you develop thanks to the activity that make the big difference and really move the needle in a profound way.
Bernie (34:56)
So we kind of touched on, you know, people that are in business, you know, the coaches and or you know whatever whatever whatever spectrum in the business world they're in. But for those that are that are like, hi, you know, I'm I'm 20 something or you know I've just come up with a a brand new piece of SAS software or you know, or
I'm working corporate and I'm now ready to hit the escape button and parachute out and start doing something different. Sure. Yeah, so there it's a career switch coming in. And not necessarily even corporate. You know, they've they've been doing one thing going, I'm tired of this. I I wanna do something more exciting that's gonna be enlightening my life. Sure. How how do you get them to shift in? Because they they're not coming in necessarily w
s in some instances not a lot of experience or their experience is limited to the box they came from. Right. And they're about to venture out into something that's new territory where they might have skill set for it. So they're a a developing expert. How do you how do you how do you make sure that you know they're on the right path and they just don't go up, up and then there's no there's no ground underneath them.
Ben (36:03)
Yeah, great, great, great question. Fantastic question. And I certainly encourage anyone who's thinking of leaving the corporate world to try it. Right? You can always go back if you have to, but it's worth trying stepping away from the corporate world. And I'm saying this, you know, not having been it in it for the last 17 years. A little smile on my face. so e and either way, and I'm not disparaging anybody for being in the corporate world. but you know, as you're transitioning.
whether it's out of corporate to another career, et cetera. You know, there's here's what I want to do or what I think I want to do. Here's the vision or dream. And that's great. And do that and figure out who that's for and talk to those people. Right. But keep in mind, you know, the skills and the things that you have already that can translate and be applicable over here. Like don't just trash all the things from the past. Right. So I often so I had a
Eight-year magazine production history. I used to live in I grew up in New York around the city, right? So I worked on, you know, as an adult, well, that was debatable, but you know, after university, I worked on some some really big global magazine titles Modern Bride, Condi Nas Traveler, the AARP membership magazine. I actually helped launch that, right? And that career and and those successes and outcomes, you know, of which there were thankfully many.
You know, I I left the magazine world in 2003, right? So 23 years ago. And still in my bio, one of the last lines is, you know, and he helped launch one of the world's biggest magazines, AARP. Right. So there are skills and there's story and there's experience and there's credibility and there's gravitas and all these kinds of things. It's of from something way back when.
Yeah. And when I left the corporate world, I left because I wanted to make a bigger difference in the world. I was an ARP, you know, is a nonprofit. Sure. I mean, it serves what 65 million people over 50 or some some amazing thing like that. That's awesome. But I was still doing a production magazine production job, which I love, but I wasn't, you know, feeling the connection directly to the people. So I left that and I started working, I worked for several years with an NGO.
You know, serving people with ALS, Lugerig's disease. Right. And that was amazing work on the one hand, but you know, a lot of nonprofits and NGOs suffer from challenges around money and terrible culture and all these kinds of things. And I realized after a couple of years that, you know, hey, the impact that I want to make is not going to come through the NGO. Like I'm glad they're doing that stuff, but I gotta do my own version of this. Right. And
When I became an entrepreneur 17 years ago, I had almost no idea about anything. I mean, I knew communication things and I knew production things and I knew digital things, but I knew nothing about business. Right. I knew really nothing about marketing or sales, you know, all those kinds of things. But yeah, I I yeah, I stepped forward in some way and I stepped, you know, and I started learning and I started talking to people and I made a lot of mistakes and all these kinds of things. And my only, I don't want to say regret.
because it because it's not a regret. But you know, if I had to do it a little bit differently, right, or if there was one piece of advice that I would say is is whatever transition you're making, try to have either you know six to nine to twelve months of plenty of money to make that transition, or make the transition and and have like a 20-hour a week side gig.
Because the ups and the downs of the transition and the evolution and trying to nail it in, you know, it might be quick, but often it takes a minute or 17 years, depending who you're talking to. Right. So you want to have some income and you don't want to be biting your nails, you know, especially. I mean, I was very fortunate because I've been doing this, you know, I've been a solo operator for many years. Like I don't have kids, right? You know, like I, you know, I don't have a partner, makes it really easy to do my things because I can just choose for myself.
Right. But especially if you have family, right? Especially if you have kids and college is coming or whatever else, right? Yeah. Make the transition because it it will be one of the best things you ever do, even if you have to go back to corporate, make the transition, but just make the experience much less intense and much less nail biting for you. You'll be so happy that you did.
Bernie (40:13)
Kind of wrap up question. Budget of time and and finances or resources. What should a person allot to? Yeah. I got an idea and I gotta start writing to ta da. What what should rough and again? I i it all depends. If you're writing if you're writing the Tolkien series, deep, deep pockets, deep pockets, deep time.
Ben (40:34)
Sure, sure. Yeah. So so in the the time side of things, you know, you just made the point, Bernie, like there's all sorts of answers to that. But the method that I teach my authors is 20 minutes a day, six days a week on your book. Right. just keep chipping away. And if you're chipping away and you know using a a process in a blueprint and things like that, and you always know what you're doing, you know, those 20 minutes are epically leveraged. So that that's one part.
And then number two, you know, budget can certainly range, you know, depending on on the you know the complexity of service and the help you're getting and all those kinds of things. and I say to people, I say to some some people who work with me, you know, that you know, I'll I'll explain my whole process and package and and the kind of things. And they're like, yeah, there's that little sometimes a little bit of hesitation because maybe they don't have the budget for the full publishing yet.
Right. Or maybe the the idea of publishing is just so overwhelming and they like are still trying to wrap their head around the book. I'm just like, okay, well, let's just take a first step. Right. What's a first step that's going to give you really high leverage results? Big surprise, it's having conversations with your ideal clients about the book. One, because you're going to get clarity about the book, but number two, the people you talk to, they can start providing revenue or referrals or relationships and partnerships, those kinds of things.
Right. So so do do that because then you don't have to be like, I got, you know, I gotta put X amount of dollars aside, you know, for this thing. It's like, no, just, you know, a a smaller, a much smaller investment up front, you know, in a process that you know very quick quickly comes back 10x. Right. And over the course of years and decades, if you keep utilizing the book, right.
you know, will turn into million millions of dollars of value from, you know, like just a couple thousand bucks at the beginning to get the ball rolling.
Bernie (42:23)
I I gotta say thank you so much, but you know what, before we get to the sign-off phase, how do we find Ben in the wild wide wide wide world at at large?
Ben (42:33)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. So if you're if you're in in the Valencia, Spain area, I'm in Gandia, which is about an hour south of Valencia. There's a direct train, the C1 train. So come down anytime and we can drink coffee. otherwise, influencewithaheart.com. Once again, influencewithaheart.com. And I can also be found on LinkedIn, Benjoia G-I-O-I-A. my website, there's a menu item.
I think it says tools these days, but there's a bunch of fabulous resources, courses, you know, free stuff and really good things that will help you with your book. You know, you can even apply them today. So check it out and you know, if if you have any questions, reach out. It's a pleasure to talk to you and just help you get clear with your book, whether I can help you, you know, in the future or not.
Bernie (43:23)
Ben, do you have a book?
Ben (43:24)
I have four books and I'm I'm have finished the the first draft of number five and I've just started scratching the surface of my first novel.
you know five five different like what is it? There's three tools right there, one strategy actually there's four tools and one strategy phone call there. So basically a ton of resources under that tools menu item.
Bernie (43:46)
You know what, Ben? I want to say thank you so much for being a guest. And Ben Goya is a great person to chat with. He is absolutely chill. And he makes the conversation smooth, flowing. And you know what? If you have an idea, you have a powerful idea if and you want to work with clients and you want to help share your knowledge and help benefit everybody and at the same time get rewarded for that, reach out to Ben.
make your book have that reach and it's you know whether it's paperback hard copy electronic i i it's a mixed bag however to reach us you can visit us at Knack 4 Business the word knack the number four and business dot com we even have a little chat bot on the on the corner that will
help you find other resources inside our space.