Alan Stevens shows you how to read anyone in seconds, so your conversations land, trust builds faster, and you stop losing deals you should have won.
GROWTH PILLAR: Sales & Revenue
WHO THIS IS FOR: SMB owners / Solopreneurs / Sales professionals / Leaders building teams
WHAT THEY'LL GAIN: A practical system for reading people before the conversation goes sideways — using facial features, body language, and micro expressions to communicate in the way each person actually needs.
Most deals don't fall apart because of price. They fall apart because you misread the person across from you.
Alan Stevens is an internationally recognized profiling and communications specialist. The Guardian called him the world's leading authority on reading people. He has worked with Disney, Gillette, and Australian law enforcement. He is a bestselling author, media regular, and founder of the Campfire Project, the hashtag We Together, and the Business of Smiles.
In this episode, Alan breaks down Rapid Trait Profiling — a system that combines facial feature analysis, micro expressions, body language, and para language to give you a live read on anyone, in real time. No questionnaire. No self-reporting. Just observation.
What you'll learn:
Alan also shares the story behind the Campfire Project — 700 hours of conversation across cultures, religions, and gender identities, with zero incidents of bigotry or disrespect. Now recognized as one of the most fully inclusive groups globally.
Free resource: Alan offers a free 28-minute course at alanstevens.com.au — 14 short modules, no cost, a couple of cups of coffee worth of time. It gives you real traits to go out and test immediately.
Connect with Alan Stevens:
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Next Steps
Bernie (00:22)
question to the listener. Why do your conversations fall flat even when you say the right words? Our guests will unpack how business owners and leaders misread people in critical moments and how rapid trait profiling.
helps you spot behavioral signals.
Bernie (00:35)
instantly.
Bernie (00:35)
so that your conversations land, your trust forms faster, and decisions improve. If you want to stop guessing what people mean and start reading the conversation before it goes sideways, listen in. And connect with our guest to sharpen that one skill that improves everyday relationships that you have in business. Our guest today is Alan Stevens. He is an internationally recognized profiling and communications specialist. He's described by The Guardian as the world's leading authority on reading people.
He has worked with organizations including Disney, Gillette and Australian law enforcement. A bestselling author and media regular, he founded the hashtag We Together, the Campfire Project and is the director of both the Business of Smiles and the Montessori Primary School. Alan, it's a pleasure having you back again. It's just really good to have you here. I always enjoy our chats. Not that I don't enjoy other people's chats, but I always enjoy our chats.
You have a favorite quote or saying you want to share?
Alan (01:28)
All say the people.
Alan (01:29)
The main thing that I always say is
the most important thing you'll ever learn is the next thing you learn after you think you know everything.
Alan (01:37)
But it's always a good place to stop.
Alan (01:39)
First of all, mate, I'd like to say thanks for inviting me back on here and also for the conversations we had in the past. They've been brilliant as well. I've loved them as well.
Alan (01:43)
⁓ They've always been
Bernie (01:47)
Well, I'm enjoying it because you know what, most meetings I have with people, they don't go in with an expectation because it's a way to see what surprises me and what I learned. And you know what? It's like opening and say having a book and reading a page. You flip the page and it's like another door and it's just something new underneath the next page. So I appreciate your time and coming back into this space.
what has changed in the last year for you with regards to doing the profiling?
Alan (02:14)
⁓
Alan (02:14)
The
main thing has been the recognition that people understand about it. One of the biggest issues was, I started this, talking about your family members being connected to your personalities was something that people had a lot of trouble getting their head around. Was this mind reading? Was this avoidance or whatever?
Alan (02:17)
people have started to get.
is we like first.
people
are happy with the lighter parts of it because as I say
Alan (02:37)
the
facial features tell me your personality. Then when I'm talking to you, I know how to change the way that I like to be spoken to to match the way that you need and want to spoken to. And then I have the responses that I get from that that tell me through the body language and the micro expressions, the little twitches on the face, whether I read you right, whether there's something emotionally going on and are you telling the truth. So the body language, the micro expressions, the para language, the way in which we deliver the words, the language itself have all been empirically proven
Alan (02:43)
be spoken.
decades ago. But facial features...
Alan (03:06)
The fact that
there's only something that's starting to get recognition right now. And in fact, it's the most powerful part of the whole process. It gives you strong foundation. Because as soon as you see someone's face and you recognise their personality, you then know how to talk to them from that point. So it took quite a while to get recognition out there. But now I've even got universities now wanting to do
Alan (03:14)
it says.
But it took that.
further
research on it as well, that they're seeing the potential that's in that profiling system.
Bernie (03:33)
ever find that some people thought it was like phrenology, you something that was from the 1920s, 1930s, and that's kind of, you know, it's kind of pseudo
Bernie (03:41)
And I.
Bernie (03:43)
How do
you dispel that going? no, it's. I have a sense of where where it's coming from based on our past conversations, you know, if you always have like a knot in your forehead, right? The are you're always uptight.
Alan (03:55)
.
Alan (03:56)
Well,
you know, the frown on the corner of the mouth, the corner of the mouth turned down. means you've been frowning a lot in your life, so you're more pessimistic, exactly. Phrenology was about bumps on the head, and it was connected to character. If you had certain bumps, you'd be aligned to your
Alan (04:03)
But
that would be
a you know, could be a serial killer. But as I always say to people,
Alan (04:13)
said, you
know, when I used to work on my vehicles, the cars working underneath, I guarantee when I came out from underneath, I'd have a few extra bumps on my head. It didn't turn me into a serial killer. You know, the language was a little bit blue when I came out a bit angry with myself and knocked me head again. But it didn't change my character. Talking about here is just different part of the personality, not somebody's thinking or why they're thinking about something, but how they're thinking about it.
Alan (04:29)
But what we're talking about is the facial features, which we're talking about.
So two.
Alan (04:40)
people
can look very similar to each other, could say, could be a sinner. Thinking in the same way, but one's trying to figure out, how can I help the community and everyone around me? The other one is trying to think, well, how can I help myself at everyone else's expense? And so, but at the same time, everything we feel inside, we express outwardly. We can see if somebody's angry because they look on their face. We're looking at their body language and their expressions. So if you pull the same expression over and over, if you're working your biceps, you're going to build
Alan (04:43)
They both suck
just like the
air.
Alan (05:09)
the different structure in the muscles that go
from a palm up or to a palm down lifting the weights, you're to change the structure again. So any muscle you work over and over creates ridges and crevices. And there nurture traits, the ones in response to the environment. And so there's our personality, how we like to think.
Alan (05:21)
what we call the we develop to our.
Bernie (05:29)
Some of the stuff is all related, I also want to focus on the really new key elements.
So this skill, like when people have an epiphany, usually it's in the shower, it's, you know, seven in the morning, light bulb comes on. When did you have your epiphany that you could actually looking at people and going, hang on, you know, I've seen this behavior, I've seen this look before, I've seen a certain behavior and look in combination because it's contextual. When did you first go, hang on? Yeah.
Alan (05:58)
Yo, guys.
Alan (05:58)
In my case, it
was more a case of not so much with the epiphany that I had at the time.
Alan (06:03)
it related to looking at the facial features, was.
Alan (06:05)
more about the fact that I
was in my life. A lot of broken relationships, a lot of misreading of people and ⁓ somebody said to me one day, you ever looked at reading faces? Research on that and found a lady who taught the facial feature side of things and I started looking at people and I thought, well, from what I heard in that teaching and I went out and tested everything.
Alan (06:15)
So I did some lighting
Yeah
she was taking. It was true.
People with wide faces, high level of culture.
Alan (06:32)
those with a narrow face, learn something new for the first time, they like to practice it and make sure they got it right. So I got my confirmation from the traits that she'd been teaching me.
Alan (06:37)
I watch their behaviour.
Bernie (06:42)
That's great. So rapid trait profiling. First off, walk me through this, walk us through this. that just launched recently, correct?
Alan (06:49)
That's right. Well, I started with the trapezoid.
Alan (06:52)
rapid profiling,
starting putting the things together back about two days ago. That's where I first started looking at the facial expressions. And I'd realised back in those days that people working with the micro expressions weren't doing anything with the facial features and people doing with the micro expressions, they correlate, they complement each other. And I just, that was my epiphany, realising that bringing a number of different sciences together
Alan (06:55)
back decades ago now.
the facial features.
people
facial features.
shadow.
Alan (07:21)
to put them together in a way in which we deliver them as an art form. So the science and art of reading, that's where it all came from. it's been quite effective. Our clients doing testimonials more than a decade and a half later.
Alan (07:23)
date with
Fable.
ever since.
than the $50
those years ago.
Bernie (07:38)
So is that a combination of like, because the micro expressions, those are, you know, short lived moments, you know, almost a flash, right? Even then you might not see the flash. So is that something in your subconscious that we are interpreting as a gut feel as well as in context?
Bernie (07:47)
Yeah.
Alan (07:55)
Well, leave.
Alan (07:56)
Microexpression appears when something is something happens around you, you unconsciously respond. And then a moment after you've responded, then your conscious mind steps in. So a microexpression will be as fast as a fifth of a second down to one twenty fifth of a second. And in that time, it's unconscious. It's not you can't control it.
of it, you can see in that moment exactly what the person's feeling. And if it doesn't correlate with they're saying, you know straight away that they're not telling the truth.
Alan (08:21)
with the words that
Bernie (08:25)
We kind of touched on it earlier, disk and MBTI. There are other tests. What's the differentiator between that? Is it just the observer versus pen and paper, or what's the scoop here?
Alan (08:37)
Well with this
Alan (08:38)
mice, Briggs, et cetera, all those different psychometric profiling systems.
Alan (08:42)
They're self-reporting. Bye.
Alan (08:43)
And they're affected your
emotion levels at the time. you're sad, you'll get different results. At the same time, the interpretation of the background, etc. readings. we know that well, Myers Briggs has used the was 89 of the top 100 companies.
Alan (08:47)
You are happy to die or your head goes...
words, your cultural, all of those things affect the
Bye.
but any profile you do today.
Alan (09:06)
50 % of people five months later will get a different result. So they're acting. They're in that moment in the questions of this role you're playing, whereas with rapid trade profiling dynamic, you look at someone's face and you go, okay, if I put them in this role, this is the way they'll behave. I put them over here now next, this is the way they'll So they may behave at a certain time at home, you know their environment there, you will have a different interpretation of how they're going to respond in that situation.
Alan (09:12)
actually
that's quite
Bye.
we had. But why at work? But
Alan (09:36)
So it's dynamic and it's living all the time and it doesn't change overnight, whereas it results with Myers, Briggs and Disk.
Alan (09:41)
Can.
Bernie (09:42)
What are the myths surrounding people that read faces?
I guess kind of, you know, it's almost looking at the person. You have liver disease. And when you were two, there was a baseball that smack you up tight, top of the head, because I can still see the imprint. No, I mean, I'm just joking. Where does the reality and where it's like, you know, you're reaching, but you're not, you know, it's either hit and miss or you're just waiting for a physical reaction from the person, almost like, you know, when the
A mentalist would say something and watch your reaction and then know Gates the next answer right and they already know how to shape it.
Alan (10:17)
That's very much the way that those systems work. When it comes to looking at someone's face, I can see them today and I've a lot of them say 10, 15 years ago. The difference in their facial structure, what sort of a life they've had. It won't tell me the events that have happened. That's all clairvoyance. That's all makeup. But it comes down to a tough life. the first, the corner of their mouth is turned up and now I'm seeing this
Alan (10:22)
If I've got a photo.
She will tell me.
If I've, they've had a photos.
Alan (10:44)
natural look on their face, the corner of the mouth is turned down, I know they've gone through tough times. If there's extra ridges and crevices on their face, the different wrinkles...
Alan (10:51)
also
we have that will tell us that they've used
Alan (10:54)
those muscles over and over again and those muscles are connected to different expressions, we know that's an expression, we know it's sort of a life they've lived. So we're not making assumptions and when we do... ...person, what I'm getting this feeling is this, this is... ...through. It's not saying to them, I can see...
Alan (11:00)
I
it. I always ask a
accurate with for you? Is this what you went through?
you had this and you went through that etc that's all
Alan (11:17)
show play but most people then in that situation when you're doing that if they're doing it on TV for instance because they don't want to dispute it so it always sounds fantastic as fairly you know very much a charlatan way
Alan (11:23)
people will agree with you because
But it's a way
of working.
Bernie (11:30)
So this whole process to help people communicate better and to communicate better is understanding where the other person is at, especially if you don't know the person. instead of coming across salesy, know, like, hey, baby, here's my new sweet car. Do you want to buy it? As opposed to car, you know, if you're selling to a 17 year old male, flashy red car, there you go. It's a sports car, even better.
Bernie (11:33)
Thank
Bernie (11:54)
If it's only got two wheels, it must be a motorcycle, even better. know, meanwhile, the parents are having a heart attack. But when you're doing the read on a person, the whole purpose is just to get that,
what they need to know for information and how to relay that information then.
Bernie (12:08)
The
Alan (12:08)
But before
I say...
Alan (12:10)
sales and that it's always finding out what the person needs, where their problems are, what we're looking to do is to help them get the emotional outcome they're looking for, save them time, help them save money or make money, at the same time fix the problem they've got and remove their worry and stress. So in those five things, if we do that right, we become a problem solver. To do that, you've got to listen to the other person and understand them. If you look at somebody, say they are driving a car and they're
Alan (12:34)
So if buy Facebook
to you, how do you it at the value?
Alan (12:38)
What's important to them? it the same?
So if I'm selling a car to somebody who's got value is important and say their partner is one who's got the service and they all want all these different additions and things put on the car, the other one's starting to go, what do we need all this stuff? Well, I can talk to that person about the prices of the being really fantastic. The running costs.
Alan (12:54)
Well, before...
the purchase of the vehicle.
the resale values, etc.
Alan (13:04)
At the same time, the things all their partner wants on the car, what do they do to improve the, not just make the car, how does it improve the performance of the car? The spoiler on the back, the design of that is to push the car harder on the road to get the tyres to, which means less wear and tear on the tyres and much safer driving. Less set situation of a game or an accident. The other one's all about how they look and how the car feels. And if you reach one in the way that they need to be spoken to,
Alan (13:10)
that look better.
The sport
really great.
They'll both agree to the purchase and they could eat.
Alan (13:33)
purchase and look at each
other and go how the hell did we ever come to the decision at the same time because we never do. Talking to their traits that's a beautiful part of it.
Alan (13:39)
Because you do. But you're about a beautiful part of
Bernie (13:43)
So would it be fair to say then, if you're not making that connection, you haven't read the person right. I've had some people say, listen, you're a tech genius, you're talking, you're looking for funding, you're looking at someone who handles finance, and you're telling them tech stuff, they're like, it's very flat, it's very, like you said, the...
Bernie (13:49)
And I ⁓
Bernie (14:06)
the tail on the back, you know, to help push the back tires down tighter. How, is that where people will follow up and they just kind of, they're trying to push out what they're comfortable with? Or is it just anxiety on their behalf? Well, it usually trips them up.
Bernie (14:18)
What are you?
Alan (14:20)
Well, most of us, to speak the way that we.
Alan (14:21)
All of us, like
to be spoken to. There's lot of information to make a decision. We're going to give people a lot of information. And if the other person is wired differently, they just want the
Alan (14:26)
So if we leave it alone.
overview,
they'll give us those all the way through which.
Alan (14:35)
polite yes, really counterfeit, they just want us to shut up and move.
And so we miss out completely. That if I can see that person needs all the information, leads. I'm going to start out by saying, because I need a lot of information when I make decisions. But I'm to say to them, look, there's a lot of information here. And I can guarantee at that point on their face, I can see that little bit of tension. But if I add to it, look, I'm going to let you ask all the questions you want to ask. And they
Alan (14:41)
So the whole thing is.
Just the overview.
Coming in.
I can
see the chat.
Alan (15:02)
the
relief then they think, oh, I'm going to be spoken with not spoken at. And I'll say, well, look, there's something there that you didn't ask that you need to know. As well, if I tell you that, then that's a way to conduct that conversation. So given the overview, first of all, okay, would you like to know, after we've been through all that, and they're satisfied with the information they've got, I then would say,
Alan (15:11)
And that's why I'll
with a walk, you know, as I said before.
Alan (15:22)
especially if you're a finance or a broker, et cetera, you've got to tick some certain boxes on the computer. You know, that boring stuff we're there now, is that okay if I... ...to get a chuckle from them they're happy because the conversation has gone the way they've wanted it. It's been a conversation, not me just lecturing them. And at the same time, the conversation has taken the time it needed to take.
Alan (15:30)
tell you about that.
So it's always.
Alan (15:45)
designed on the other person, the conversation will take some time depending on their personalities and whatever time it takes, way the timing is perfect.
Alan (15:47)
quick or really slow.
If you do it that
Bernie (15:54)
So this basically revolves around ⁓ human interaction, direct human interaction. Does it also evolve, let's say, where it's filtered either through the phone line or it's... Can you get a sense from those two other mediums about the person? Maybe not as clear because obviously if you can't see the face, you never met the person face to face, but you're talking on the phone or you're receiving a...
Bernie (16:03)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bernie (16:18)
letter or an email. Can you still draw inferences from that too?
Alan (16:22)
Well, when you're conversing, the the the back. ⁓
Alan (16:22)
having a verbal conversation over the phone.
The body language that you'd normally get this feedback
will come through in the tone of voice. If you're listening to the words using the way in which they're speaking, you've got an idea of whether there's somebody who's got a lot of level of confidence with a lot of it. Where there's somebody who is really they wanting to be supported, you'll pick a lot of that up. There's a problem with that because eating that our emotions not there. We got no idea.
Alan (16:39)
authority, etc.
In text, all we read the text with is
of how they actually said that.
Alan (16:55)
So when it comes to that, I'm very careful about what I do in text. I've got a philosophy and that is that if you want to have a conversation with a if we can't do that, we do it on a Zoom call or if we can't do that, we do it on the phone. But if we can't do that, you'll find get together and have anything in text. I will never have conversations with it because that will guarantee breakup at some point because read it with our emotions.
Alan (17:03)
We do it face to face.
over a video call. Go back to the original. Start again because
There'll be a.
Alan (17:23)
and they're related to us with theirs and then they read our response with theirs and problems happen. You see it all over Facebook and social media, they're all the time, people get into arguments. And half the time when I read what they've written, they're talking about the same thing but don't realise it.
Bernie (17:37)
Or it's a bot and it's from another country and it's just a game.
Alan (17:40)
That's
another problem.
Alan (17:41)
Anyway, you got
Alan (17:42)
somebody on a zoom call you don't know if that's a real person either.
Alan (17:45)
with the deep fakes these days.
Bernie (17:47)
Yeah, I don't feel deep fake. I had a cold two weeks ago. It's been too much happening in my life have a deep fake cold at the same time.
People try masking and obviously they don't mask well, what are the tells that a person is maybe not trying to lie, but they're not also trying to convey their state of mind. So what are tells?
Alan (18:06)
Well, very first of all, if we start this.
Alan (18:09)
How many times have you, how many times have you all listened? I heard somebody speaking and everything sounded fine but you had that gut feeling something wasn't right. What it comes down to is that you have picked up the non-verbals and this is what happens unconsciously but quite often we don't know whether, was it because that person reminded us of somebody in the past that we didn't trust who did the wrong thing? they're not being truthful at this point.
Alan (18:11)
who
or if we actually pick.
Alan (18:33)
How we pick it up is in those non-verbals, the body language, the expressions on the face. The words don't match what the non-verbals are telling us.
Alan (18:38)
with what the body is. We always go.
because anybody body. So we'll.
Alan (18:45)
Nobody can say anything, but what is everybody telling you? Looking for
inconsistencies. Looking for if somebody is ⁓ not, you you say something to somebody and they're talking about a great friend of theirs, and then you're talking about something that if that friend has got the problem they've gone through, you see a little twitch of a smile on their face, you know that they're enjoying that, they're not so much a friend of the other person.
but you don't know why. you're talking with more questions that come up, a conversation. You keep looking for those little indicators and you start putting them together. Don't take it on one. One side of the mouth, just to the side of the nose.
Alan (19:20)
the ⁓ base twitches goes
up. That could be that there was
Alan (19:26)
⁓
a trigger in the skin itself. You've been talking a lot. We've got nerve endings near the top, so your face might have got itchy and you just made that little twitch on the face.
Alan (19:35)
But if you do it consistently with...
Alan (19:37)
in the conversation, what's really going on? So we're looking at reading you in clusters in context and are they congruent with what, where those in group incongruencies come in. That's where we get most of our information that things aren't right.
Alan (19:44)
we're expecting.
But that was why I decided we had to have features.
Alan (19:53)
have not just with the facial
to tell me how to talk to somebody, I always need a confirmation and that's where the body language and the expressions came in. One on its own, any one of those sciences on their own, yeah they're okay but they're not giving you story. putting five sciences together, as I said the body language, the micro expressions, everything, the language, the power of language, how we deliver it and the facial features.
Alan (19:57)
away.
because that
folks.
to check every word we use the
teachers
with
Alan (20:21)
got
all the information we need to get accurate read on somebody and know whether the conversation was true or not.
Bernie (20:27)
It sounds like there's like an
As someone who learns to read, folks, you may have not met all the different variations of people. Yes, someone who lied to you before, someone who's told you the truth before, someone's loved you, somebody who's disliked you, or strongly disliked you. You have that range. Is set number of types that you kind of map out and then, you know, there'll be variations of it, but is there a clustering of that?
Bernie (20:34)
Yeah.
Bernie (20:53)
And the second part of this question, because I'm looking at your background,
you might have different types, phenotypes or whatever you want to call it, but you might also have instances where somebody, the reason I'm twigging on it is looking at your shelf behind you, and you have a book called Autism. And what is in that space might not, for the...
typical person where you have a certain expectation, it's coming across differently. How do you sort through that so you're not misreading or the person is really a good poker face? And which is not autistic, but it's,
Alan (21:28)
Yeah, well, when you look at it, you look at all your categories, the boxes you put in, the beautiful thing about wrap
Alan (21:29)
You've got Myers, Briggs and Disse, yes you've got little categories of people.
for
trait profiling is that I come along and take people out of the box and treat them as an individual in their own right, completely separate from everybody else. So there are no category. I'm looking at a total of about 68 different traits at the moment. And some of them have extreme in one direction or the other or somewhere in between, or you don't have the possible combinations. There's two octillion possible combinations and two octillion
Alan (21:41)
each other.
Please.
I have
to have it all at that rate. Well, if you look at
Alan (22:03)
is two with 27 characters after it. So we don't have categories to put people in. Soon as I look at somebody, what stands out the most? That's the most dominant trait. What stands out the second? How do they moderate or enhance each other? Within five seven traits, what's the bulk of that person's personality? Because everything else is now coming to the middle of the road. The middle of the road, it mediates.
Alan (22:23)
is a great data
between people who have got the opposite traits to each other. So they work well with
Alan (22:28)
both,
they're the ones that fix all the problems. But when you're on stream, is, you'll have dramatic appreciation, rather dramatic and putting a flare into the work you're doing. Being on stage, the downside of it is you do the same thing, same volume of when you do stress. So to somebody who's on the other side, who is more laid back and quiet and everything else, when they're stressed,
Alan (22:31)
you got an experience where you have a real gift. you have
You have a real flair for-
age etc.
by doing your strength.
aesthetic who is
they
pull back.
Alan (22:55)
in
their cave. So when the other one, the dramatic person, voice their stress, the other one pulls away and they clash. That brought them together in the first place. The difference in our traits excites us with somebody. Then we get that difference and now we notice the Every has an upside and every trait has a downside. Like I said, dramatic appreciation, expressing themselves.
Alan (22:58)
starts to get...
but they're usually the traits are place. This is a
the side of their trait because every
great, stress
Alan (23:22)
drama queen.
Alan (23:24)
to people who are got the aesthetic appreciation.
Alan (23:26)
It doesn't mean there's any right or wrong trait. We know what environment they're going to flourish in and what environments are going to push their buttons. So we can orchestrate things so that they're happy and productive and we move their stress away from them. That way we have stronger relationships. We know how to talk to them in a way that they want and need to be spoken to. And that's the most important thing.
Alan (23:29)
and read the
They're all.
And then.
Bernie (23:48)
Artificial intelligence, I've seen some people of...
say on a zoom recording, etc. There's a note taker, etc. And this one platform, was actually rating, you know, is the person happy or upset, you know, you might be totally oblivious, but the software sitting in the background going, ah, this person, you maybe they're hungry. And I saw him, the person that had written the platform and he realized near the end of the day, he's going, so I'm always kind of dour, you know, like what's up with that? And then he realized, hang on, I'm hungry.
My blood sugar is dropping, right? And I'm getting cranky. Is AI something that can aid in a bit in this process? is it just is it is all human skills and the AI is like, yeah, maybe, but it's hit or miss.
Alan (24:34)
You always are.
Alan (24:35)
It
only works properly if you keep the human element, got to humanise it as we're doing it. And I know there are people using AI that look at your profile and give you a disk profile and any RAM and whatever, depending on who you're supposed to But we know that on those platforms, most people don't do their own profile. People don't do People don't don't do don't don't don't People own
Alan (24:38)
that we've...
your
he agrees Briggs really needs to be.
Not completely.
but the face itself to look at the photograph first of all, AI to see if we can educate AI, AI to look at face.
Alan (24:58)
being able to. Also, I thought, right, we need to look at.
someone's face,
tell us their profile and give us an idea of the best way that person likes to be spoken to. And then we could then do that. a gentleman over in the States I'm working with at the moment who used to listen to the conversation. And in listening to the conversation, pick up the change in the tone, etc. Is there nervousness coming in? So on that side of it, that
Alan (25:08)
You
This is AI to listen.
et cetera. Works
really well, but you have to be able to...
Alan (25:30)
refer to something
else. It's like in body language. does it mean when you got your arms folded? Most people don't switch. The whole thing is they could be, there's a whole myriad of reasons why they got their arms folded. They could be intimidated. They're a bit nervous. They give themselves a warm hug.
Alan (25:33)
If you ask people what is it
by your position that you hold.
It could be cold. They could have...
Alan (25:50)
problems in the shoulders. may have been the way that they've always, whenever they're from very young age, when they were having conversations with people. We're looking for the changes. If we were looking at what somebody's saying or expression on screen, what was said at the time. So we need to know what the going on to compare it to what we're seeing. If we don't, then we're just making assessment. The judge already
Alan (25:52)
Stuart.
people.
What?
to watch.
bullet
taking guesses.
Bernie (26:12)
So, rapid trait profiling. Is there an ideal fit? Is there somebody that should be doing this, taking this? Is there somebody that, ⁓ maybe not so much so. What's the ideal persona or profile of a person or even industry that should actually be capitalizing on this?
Alan (26:30)
Pick me
Alan (26:31)
really
comes down to anybody who wants to improve. I know people say the word anybody. It really does come down to that because anybody can benefit from this. Raising children, knowing how the child likes to think and process, how to teach them and guide them. Looking for a partner, how to find the right partner. If you've got a partner, how to keep that partner. If you're looking at improving your sales, looking at building your teams at
Alan (26:41)
If you're right, you're out.
If you look
at I've had
Alan (26:57)
So was in networking to one guy and this guy was walking around asking everybody, what do you bring to the table? And products and services, cetera. Finally got to me, he asked me the same question. I said, look, mate, I just bring the damn table.
Alan (27:04)
really
He said, I said, look, your relationships are built with people. Relationship partnerships are equally important priorities. have to build the relationships to show
Alan (27:11)
talking about people putting their products and services away. In other words, the relationship
relationships, relationships first. Show people
how good you are. And if you don't do that, you're dead in the water. With products and services on the table, that's your foundation, that's your relationships and that's what I use everywhere. You mentioned before about the picture, the book behind me on autism.
Alan (27:25)
So putting your.
teach. This is
I have quite a few
Alan (27:38)
few
clients who have neurodiverse in one way or another. It's not so much they've got to learn this, but the people around them.
Alan (27:40)
another.
stuff. It's what
we do these days, especially at school.
Alan (27:48)
We diagnose kids with different issues, then we medicate and fit them into the system. All we need to is talk to them in the way that they need to be spoken to.
Alan (27:52)
So, today.
face tells us that. It tells us whether they...
Alan (27:59)
There's somebody who can concentrate for periods of time.
Alan (28:01)
body tells us if I sit there for a minute
it also tells us
Alan (28:05)
how to speak to them, how they take the information in. And if we do that, we can then put the medication. And in fact, I've got one client who I profiled her son when he was six years old. The psychologist said he'd need a carer for the rest of his life and he'd need to be heavily medicated. After I profiled him and what they put in place, the teachers and the after, he was doing presentations in front of the class. In fact, they let the psychologist do a year later and medication was off.
Alan (28:16)
This is
Well two years after
schools care.
is go to his life off
the table the last
Alan (28:33)
testimonial
his mother did for me. 15 years. He's now living on his own up in Queensland, another state altogether from where his mother lives. He's got his own place. He's got a girlfriend, drives a car, and he's now an assistant manager in a nightclub. This is the whole thing. You change the way you talk to somebody, you immediately change the outcome. And we know that you walk up to somebody with a smile on your face, they generally smile back.
Alan (28:36)
Last year. Later.
Alan (28:58)
but you go up looking quite angry, you'll the difference in their reaction. This is how simple it is. You've a person at the level that they're at and talk to them that way and you've solved so many
Alan (29:00)
see this. This is just meet the other
problems.
Bernie (29:11)
This is work well on pets too.
Alan (29:13)
Well actually, yeah.
Bernie (29:14)
different box of bolts.
Alan (29:15)
Well, ⁓
Alan (29:16)
Some of the original research was done back in the mid 1900s was looking at what
Alan (29:23)
type of cat, dog or horse.
Alan (29:26)
those animals, suit the owners, helping them to find the right sort of pets. And how often we see a mountain of a man
Alan (29:27)
would see.
with this little fluffy dog and it's his.
Alan (29:34)
love and joy and everything goes because it matches his personality. You know we do a normal judge we say
Alan (29:38)
Not this
big guy should have a big dog.
Alan (29:42)
This
is why we make, we do the same thing in our conversations without understanding. That's why we slip up so many times.
Alan (29:46)
We assume we're
Bernie (29:49)
Absolutely.
Bernie (29:50)
Tell me about project Campfire, because that's another project that you've fostered and helped create.
Bernie (29:58)
it.
Alan (29:59)
That's
it. We'll see the work I do as a pro.
Alan (30:00)
See that came out of
especially when I was talking to men in particular and I'd ask them tell us about your home life you know and tell us about your
Alan (30:10)
your
work life, or give us a word to describe that situation.
Alan (30:13)
those situations.
And I kept on hearing the words confused or one that
forgotten now. Confused with one of the main ones or frustrated with the other one. And anyway, said, a little confused about what and the men were telling me that at home, job baby boomers and Gen X, we're out away from the family, get the resources and come back and look after the family. I love by being absent. And now today, that we're physically emotionally absent. So we can't be in two places at once. Frustration, anger and everything else that was coming from from all of that.
Alan (30:24)
well frustrated.
I thought they'd was to fish you were told to go
Alan (30:45)
In the workplace, gender equality and political correctness, goalposts change daily on what you can say and what you can't say. And so, you you can't use the word homeless now. It's supposed to be, they've got some other ridiculous term. It's reduced it down to a point that you ask anybody who's homeless, they want to let people know, I'm homeless. I want to find a home. But we're now diluting it with these terms. So what was happening, the men were getting frustrated at work and anger was coming and bullying was starting to happen.
Alan (30:49)
It's the book
Alan (31:12)
So I knew they needed a safe place.
Alan (31:13)
to be able to share the stories.
Alan (31:16)
things they went through. Have somebody listen without judgement, without criticising, without counselling. I made the Canfire project but I didn't want it to be a men's group. I know it's like motivational seminar. You go away to a men's group, you go to a motivational seminar, you're all hyped up when you come back. real world hits you in the face and you're waiting for the next one to come along to go off to the next seminar or next men's group. I wanted women to hear how men could speak when they felt safe to do so. And so ⁓
Alan (31:21)
So I create.
So.
Alan (31:41)
so they could understand where men were really coming from. So I had women in there from day one. One-on-one conversations where they talked about the things they'd never talked about before. Panel discussions talking about how to improve things. And with the women, I started getting messages from them saying, we love these guys. We've never heard men talk so openly about their emotions, nor so openly about how to improve society. And so they wanted to get involved.
Alan (31:49)
together.
but wisely.
So it gave me that opportunity.
Alan (32:07)
for the men to be able to get up and speak, feeling they were safe to do, but for the women to hear how men could speak and then for them to have that desire to meet those men. And we've had over 700 hours of conversations in just over seven years now. We've got a full range of different religions, cultures and gender identity. All that time we've never had any bigotry, racism or racism and not once has anybody been disrespectful to anybody. ⁓
Alan (32:11)
it.
entities in all
the ox, which is a
great reputation for
Alan (32:35)
what
we've been able to do. It's now inclusive group where most groups have targeted groups
Alan (32:37)
picked up if you look at what say fully.
or affinity base, it holds score of any global. ⁓
Alan (32:45)
the highest record or highest fully inclusive group globally. At
the same time, now ticking five of them, they call it the United Nations Sustainable Development and ⁓ Achievement. Most of the people who have come in, being able to read them, help them to open up and share their story, get to know each other and
Alan (32:53)
the ⁓ guys.
goals, which is quite and that's all because
stories.
watch these people.
Alan (33:12)
stepping
up and the things they're doing in their lives now. And I feel very honoured and grateful to have those people around me. And they're the ones that have made the CAMFLY project what it is.
Bernie (33:22)
Is that just Australia only or is that global?
Alan (33:26)
Now some of the first people I interviewed were in Canada, England, New Zealand, and around Australia. actually, I interviewed two from America and one from
Alan (33:29)
Stay.
for this two or three people I...
England, in London.
Alan (33:40)
And so that's where it started. Once they started coming in and they started telling everybody else about it, the group started growing very quickly.
Bernie (33:47)
Excellent. A couple of quick questions.
So Alan, do you have anything that's ⁓ out there for people to for resources that they can kind of take a peek at and how do they get hold of you? So resources and reaching it.
Alan (34:00)
Okay, yeah, today.
Alan (34:00)
First of all, the resources. From all the things we talked about,
the proof is in the pudding, as they say, is in the eating of it. I can talk about this stuff and it all sounds great. But until you try it yourself, you've got no idea how accurate it is and how good it would be. It's easy to find. I know you'll put the link in the show notes, but it's alanstevens.com.au.
Alan (34:11)
for yourself. So I've got a free course which it's very
stored
Alan (34:25)
Now that will show you a whole bunch of other courses, but there's one there which is a free one. It'll take you 28 minutes to go. It's only short little modules. There's 14 modules, so you do it over a couple of cups of coffee if you like.
Alan (34:30)
through it.
The shortest video is 28 seconds, so it's pretty easy to get through. It'll give you a
Alan (34:42)
couple of traits you can go out and test and try for you
but it'll also give you some background on what other people have actually found as well. You might call it a lead magnet I put out but it's something that has some value. And as far as reaching me, let's through my website so quick.
Alan (34:51)
you'll walk away with.
Bernie (34:56)
No, I want say thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today Appreciate your time. If you found this interesting, reach out to Alan because you know, miss reading a conversation means you know it's not so bad if it's a comedy sketch like who's on first. You know he he get frustrated because the answers aren't coming out the right way or as you anticipate and Alan can help you read the situations and read the human behavior accurately.
so you can have a good communication. It's not about peeling away the surface, it's understanding that you're reaching the person and having a good connection, whether it's a spouse, your kids, your neighbor, or other people. So it's something to work on. And it helps you