Fractional CFO Martha Gordash shows SMB owners how to stop avoiding their numbers and run a weekly rhythm that turns busy work into real profit and calmer decisions.
GROWTH PILLAR: Leadership & Ops
WHO THIS IS FOR: SMB owners / Solopreneurs / Corporate escapees / Leaders building systems
WHAT THEY'LL GAIN: A clear read on the four numbers every owner should track, the real difference between a bookkeeper, controller and CFO, and a simple weekly accountability rhythm that protects cash flow.
Most business owners feel busy, work hard, and still can't answer a simple question — where did my money go?
Martha Gordash is a fractional CFO and the founder of Success Profit Planning. She helps owners stop avoiding their financials and start using simple weekly systems to track profit and cash flow without the overwhelm.
In this conversation, Martha and co-hosts Bernie Franzgrote and Wayne Pratt unpack what's really holding small business owners back from their numbers — and what to do about it.
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Bernie (00:22)
So question to the listener, why do you feel busy and working hard but still unsure about your numbers? Our guest will break down how business owners can stop avoiding their financials and start using simple weekly systems to track profit and cashflow without overwhelm.
She'll show you how clarity and accountability around your numbers lead to calmer decisions, stronger profits, and real control over your business. Our guest today is Martha Gordash from Success Profit Planning.
She's a fractional CFO that helps business owners feel confident, calm, and in control of their finances. She removes the fear and friction from numbers by building clear, practical systems that blend trust, accounting, with easy to understand financial reporting. Through her signature progressive profit system, Martha empowers entrepreneurs to make smart decisions without drowning in spreadsheets or second-guessing their next move.
When she's not bringing clarity to financial strategy, you'll likely find her exploring the Pacific Northwest or testing new coffee blends. Because for Martha, the best business insights often begin with a great cup of coffee. Martha, I like that. What a good way to start the day. Pleasure having you here. Do you have a favorite quote or saying you'd like to share with us?
Martha (01:32)
Well, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about, not working harder, but working smarter. I know it's rather simple, but in business, many of us often work way too many hours.
Wayne (01:41)
Well, interestingly enough, I have found that a lot of entrepreneurs are drivers by personality and they're allergic to numbers. They know their bank balance, maybe, and maybe they might know their sales and nothing else. And they view their accountant as the enemy because he's only got bad news. You obviously don't feel that way. Tell me a story. How do you get to talk to them in language they understand?
Martha (02:07)
Well, often this conversation starts with, I've been making money, but where did my money go? Because they haven't looked at their numbers. And maybe they don't even understand it. Because financial statements aren't really very clear for those who aren't working with them all the time. They don't make sense. Take for an example, a general construction business owner. He can read a blueprint really well.
Those financial statements that are the blueprint for his business, well, those don't look quite so clear. So there's a lot of like lack of clarity and confusion for them. And that's why they avoid it. The other big thing is time. They're busy. They didn't go into business to do numbers.
Bernie (02:44)
So when you're actually opening up the hood and going, listen, this is your carburetor or fuel injector now because cars have moved on, or if it's electric, this is your battery. How do get them acquainted with this part does this, this is how these are the blocks and this is the sequence of the blocks. Much like building a house, if you don't put the foundation first, no point in the roof, something on the roof and then building up downwards.
Martha (03:09)
Generally speaking, before I even speak to them about that, I asked to see their accounting system. Because if you don't know what went into which, you know, barrel, so to speak, or spot, you don't really know, you can't even explain to them what's happening on their financial statement. So basically taking a step back first, and then you take a look at it and you explain to them, well, this is the numbers that actually apply to your business.
Big thing always is all those admin costs. Where do they go? Because you think you're making money, but you've forgotten that the front desk person actually gets paid. there's that. But basically taking those financial statements and going through it line by line and explaining what each line is. Now that is kind of technical, I guess, but that's the best way. If as a small business owner, you understand your financial statements,
then it helps you remember that when you're looking at different decisions.
Wayne (04:05)
I've been at this a while and two words that I hear a lot now that I never used to hear is fractional and CFO. when somebody is a CFI, know what they do. And normally if you're in corporate, you have one client and you're hopefully making an executive wage, let's say 80 grand a year.
What makes somebody fractional? Does one want to work with smaller companies and that 80 grand was scary and 240 seemed more approachable? Or all of a sudden you say, got to work for somebody. How does one become a fractional CFO if you know what the, if the business is.
Martha (04:40)
For me, was realizing that those small business owners need someone to come alongside them and explain the numbers to them. But they don't have the resources to hire a full-time CFO. In all likelihood, they don't even need a full-time CFO, but they need the insights that are offered by that role.
Bernie (04:58)
So what are the myths that people have? Like when you run into a contractor that's really good at whatever they are, and it doesn't even have to be a contractor, you know, it be a mechanic, it be a dentist. Do you, you know, what do they, what do they have in their heads that, know, they ain't so joke?
Martha (05:14)
Well, for one, they think sometimes the whole myth is that if you work harder, you will get a better profit margin. That's not necessarily true because if I sell a hundred widgets and I'm losing a dollar on each one, selling a thousand isn't actually going to be very helpful. So it's super important to know what your margins are versus just volume.
And that sometimes is hard for small business owners to understand because they're thinking, if I can just sell more, I'll become more profitable. Truth is, you need to know your margins.
Bernie (05:47)
Eugh.
Knowing the margins, It almost sounds like the background in getting into the business that they started. And you see this with doctors too. A lot of people here in Canada don't realize a doctor is actually a business, the operating business entity, much the same way the plumber does.
but they're lacking on the business management piece, which is the accountability element. Is that true across the board that you find that you're really good at one thing, but you're like, have a gaping hole in the rest of your knowledge bank?
Martha (06:16)
That's incredibly common because a lot of business owners are what one of my networking partners calls accidental business owners. They're really good at something and they end up opening a business and then going, ⁓ I have to do all of this. And then on top of it, the government expects to have reporting. And that's kind of where they lose that step because they didn't go to business school. They didn't go train in business.
how to run a business, but they're very good at offering their product to share.
Wayne (06:46)
So if you come from, I would say, Fortune 1000 company in training, you know what a CFO does. But I would say if you're a solopreneur, a lot of people don't know the difference, and there's quite a big difference, but the difference between your accountant and your CFO. They do different things. Can you unpack that for us?
Martha (07:06)
That is completely true. And a lot of people who think they need a fractional CFO are actually looking for a controller. So when you look at your whole accounting department, you have, quote unquote, your bookkeeper accountant. They are historical in nature. They are recording what has happened. You have your controller who oversees all of that and makes sure you have accounting processes in place, as well as the internal controls, which means that hopefully nobody's stealing from you.
Now you have the CFO. The CFO is forward-looking, strategic, looking to map your future so that you're actually hitting those targets, that profit that you were looking for. So in essence, you need all of those functions, but a CFO is probably coming from an accounting background, but they are not doing your accounting.
Bernie (07:55)
Do a preferred system or platform to work with when you're engaging? If someone comes up and I'm going to have me a business, OK, and what do I need other than your skill set? What do you tell them to purchase for a tech stack?
Martha (08:10)
Well, you really need accounting software. I have preferences, but I'm pretty agnostic because at the end of the day, software is software and you start going in and you click buttons and they all run those financial reports unless they're, if they're not running financial reports, it's not really an accounting software. So, but they do need to have that and they need to have it set up and current. That's a huge thing because sometimes business owners are
only working for compliance. And if you're only doing your bookkeeping, accounting for compliance, it's much more difficult to get useful management information if you haven't taken a look at what your management pieces are. Because if you're just dumping everything into one pot, it's kind of hard to track. I'm selling five widgets. It's all in cost of goods sold and I've never broken it out. As a CFO, how do I help you know what the
what your pricing on those items should be because you don't know what your costs are.
Wayne (09:03)
So I believe that ⁓ most, I would say mid-size entrepreneurs, even though they don't look stupid, can't tell you what a balance sheet is. But what things do you get them to focus on? What numbers do you get them to look at? I have a guess, I'm guessing. But what do you want them to look at to say, we're not trying to make you an accountant, but look at these four numbers here.
Martha (09:26)
Well, basically, look at your gross margin, because that's basically your top line revenue minus your cost of your inputs, whatever that is, labor, materials. And then the other numbers that we really, I mean, obviously net. But what's that margin of profit? Because you still want to make sure that you're at more than 5%. So you have really great controls. And at 5%, you have
a decent net, where you want to make sure that it's not really small, that you've just been running really lean, you actually want to make sure that that goes up. The other issue is that connection between your income statement, profit loss, whatever you want to call it, the one that has the net profit on it, how it connects to the balance sheet, because you are completely correct, people do not understand that connection. When you look at your balance sheet, you're wanting to look at
Well, how much cash do I actually have in the bank? You want to look at how much of that cash is going to be used to service debt. In some cases, if you're paying out the owner, if the owner isn't running through payroll, are they looking at the owner draws? Because that influences your cash flow. The other piece of this trio, so to speak, is your cash flow statement. You really want to know.
what your cash in and cash out is going to be minimum on a monthly basis. If it's a really active business, weekly is better. Because you know that money you mentioned that you have in the bank or maybe they don't know their bank balance? That's not profit. That's just money sitting in the bank. So I would say you're looking at what your revenue is. You're looking at your cash levels. You're looking at your net.
Those are some of the most important numbers you're looking at to, know, because you want to make sure that your business is solvent and just having cash in the bank isn't going to make you solve.
Bernie (11:14)
I'm to throw a wrench into the conversation. What happened? No, it's a good wrench because someone someone says, hey, listen, we have this new platform. yeah. It's bartering. How do you how do you track something in bartering land? You know, I mean, I'm not even talking crypto. I'm talking about, you know, two bales of hay over here and you know, you fix my car, right? Or
I had my previous job I joked with somebody we take all kinds of payment except livestock and produce. He says really hard to tell the accountant Yeah, I got three goats here for you today. I don't know what you're gonna do with them. But have fun putting that through the bank.
Martha (11:47)
valuation of the good or service that's being exchanged and then you just create invoices and payment forms. I it's a little dicey. It's not my favorite way of compensation by any stretch of the imagination, but it can be done, but it has to be recorded. I mean, we would all love to say there's no accounting obligation, because there's no money or no cash that exchanged hands.
neither the Canadian nor US government sees it that way. So it does have to be recorded and it has to be valued. Otherwise, I guess they see it as, well, they want their tax dollars, right?
Wayne (12:23)
thing that being around small business, I find that most business planning, future planning for growth is usually for a loan and it's usually fiction. And I'm also guessing that when you're doing let's say monthly, monthly seems to be the spot that most business owners can handle. I would say that you are, they're missing the boat if they're not going against a plan.
How do you convince them they have to take the time to build that plan to work against? How do you sell it?
Martha (12:53)
Well, what do most business owners want? They want greater profit. And you have to know your numbers to get to that greater profit. So realistically, like you said, that once a month, I really love to see accountability on a weekly or bi-weekly basis in a business of any size, because things move pretty fast and you'll end up missing opportunities. And that is one thing to mention to a business owner. If you're not looking at this
constantly, you don't have that bigger plan that you're working towards, you're not reviewing it, you're not going to get there. And so basically, you know, what is your goal? Let's take a look at this on a weekly or bi weekly basis. And how did you do because a lot can happen in a month, and you can have missed opportunities. And all of a sudden, you can't get that back, you can't roll back and go, I should do that over here. So for business owners,
Don't even look at it once a month. Maybe they are like, I do it at tax time. Because that's a favorite for a lot of people. You can't change what's happened.
Wayne (13:49)
It's like driving reading the review mirrors. It's going to get you in an accident.
Martha (13:53)
Yes, it will.
Wayne (13:54)
have something that you've phrased a progressive profit system. This sounds a little different. Can you tell me what makes that system?
Martha (14:04)
We come in and we do a business review. Number one, we don't even start with a big strategic plan. First, we have to basically have that strategic plan, but then we go back and we do a business review. We look at your systems, we look at your technology stack. No, I'm not going to fix all of that for you, but I know people who can. Then we move into basically building that plan.
And then we execute on that plan. And then when we're getting to step four, we're reviewing and saying, okay, how do your operations look? How does your marketing business development, sales, how is your admin, are all your pieces working together so that you in essence have a full business development system in place so that we can then move to full fractional CFO.
where we're doing that strategy piece. We're looking at it on a weekly basis, whether it's accountability or improvement. Because it's basically built on the concept of improvement and accountability meetings. Maybe it's only 15 minutes in a given week, but saying, hey, how did that go last week? I know you had a sales meeting or we were going to work on pricing for, did we get it done? Where are we at on it? Do you need any assistance with it?
And so by the time we get to step number five, we're ready to leverage all of that and basically scale to what you want the business to be or what you need it to be depending on what your goals and objectives are. So it's very systematic and yes, it gets tailored to individual companies. No company is exactly the same as another company. So you can't just put that stamp down and go, okay, you better follow these lines, but.
There's a frame.
Bernie (15:41)
So having been in the corporate side and being a non-accountant and being put in a position where, hey, Bernie, here's the budget. Okay, give me guidance. We use the numbers from last year. Something tells me that's not an accurate fit because as you build out the budget, it says something about a reserve fund. It says something about capital investment.
By the way, when you're building out a budget and you're doing it where you're at, and someone says, this got capitalized, all of a sudden your expense for the year seems to have shrunk, it's smeared over the years. How do you, when a business comes up and says, listen, I've just bought a truck, yeah, lifespan of the truck, assuming that your crew or someone around you isn't gonna wipe it out in the first week. And of course that's what the insurance is for, but you want the asset to last a while, whether it's tools, computer, et cetera.
How do you factor these things in? And even more specifically, at one point in time, because of where I was working, we're a non-for-profit, so an annual audit, the person comes up and says, yes, you can't capitalize a computer for five years. Three, yes, five, no. And I'm looking and going, you can capitalize it for 10, I don't know. I know it's the useful life of the product. How do you sort that out? So when you're coming into a business going, yeah,
Money in, money out. This is reserve fund. Like how do you determine the reserve fund? How much you put aside? And then of course you have the taxes that, you know, that are, you know, render on to Caesar what's due to Caesar, right? So how do you sort that whole budget picture out before they, you know, go hog wild and going, whoop, I got all this extra coin.
Martha (17:14)
Well, first you have to look at what their obligations are. What's your cash out going to be for sure in the next year? Because you've capitalized those items and maybe you've actually borrowed against purchasing them. So yes, you will have your depreciation expense, but you also have cash going out to pay for those items, like for that debt and that interest. So make sure before you think you have all this money, that you've covered that. Make sure you've covered your taxes. It's always a great idea to work.
with a tax accountant so you know what your tax obligations are going to be so that you don't get a nasty bill and go, oh, I didn't budget for this. So yes, you sit down, you have a discussion about what obligations there are before you start saying, well, let's go out and shopping and let's see what we can, you Because we all have shiny object syndrome, it's at different levels for different company sizes. So it's very important to know what our obligations are before we go shopping. And that's part of that strategic piece.
Then the other, needs to be a discussion with most likely like a CTO, like a fractional technology person. What are your technology companies going to be in the next five years in your business? That needs to be built into your budget on a yearly basis so that you don't get to the end of your technology life and go, ⁓ now what? Because that's a huge investment to keep your company working well. So there's all those kinds of things that have to be built into the budget.
Never look at money as actually being yours until you have better numbers, because it's probably designated some
Bernie (18:42)
So when you're, but to go further into this, because doing the budget, and I know why we did it, because in my instance, we had a board that says, hey, good to go, or what do you think you're doing? It's kind of the gods in the heaven going, huh? What's this all about? Likely for a personal business or a corporate business, that maybe it's not that big to have a board, which can be really handy.
It's probably the bank. So how do you plan this year, right? It's good to have cashflow. But let's say do a five year map out and then what is the goal? How do you frame that piece with ⁓ the company you're dealing with?
Martha (19:22)
I think really that comes down to particularly lot of the companies I work with asking the owner or owners, what are their personal goals? What do they need to see from their company? Because people have different goals for their companies. A nonprofit probably isn't looking for maximum profit margin. There's probably a social goal. You get a business owner that goes, well, I want to sell in five years. So what does that look like? Well, what do you need to be able to sell? Well, you need a company that's sellable.
first of all, so you better have your systems in place and have it be something that someone else would value enough to want to buy. So really it comes down to what does the business owner want in that five year framework? mean, because all business owners want profit, but what are you willing to do to get the profit? I don't know that's the best way to say it, but let's say it's a lifestyle company, they might be okay with a lower profit.
than someone who is looking to sell to private equity or perhaps they are a private equity firm and they want to get a maximum return so that they can invest in the next item. So it's really a buy-in. It's not my goals, it's their goals.
Wayne (20:29)
sometimes I've seen that the CFO is trying to tell the owner something that they should do and they go, ⁓ I know should have done that. And then next week it's, yeah, I need to have done that. What do they need to do? What can they actually be looking at in their habits so that the meeting with you isn't going to the vice principal's office?
Martha (20:50)
That's a really good question because this is a discussion I have with other CFOs. How do you get people to actually take action? Because you can give them all the information in the world if they do nothing with it. So truth of the matter is there's kind of two sets of people, right? There's a set that will take action and the other ones that never will. And if you never take action, you will just never see the success you were looking for. So there's really, you know, in a company where
that person who's supposed to be taking action just doesn't, then you have to put a plan in place if it's not the owner. If it's the owner, there's not a lot you can do. Truth is, if they haven't bought into the vision for their company, there's not a lot you can do.
Wayne (21:30)
ever fired a customer who said they hired you and then wasn't interested in listening?
Martha (21:35)
Absolutely. I had a customer and I could see all this potential and I kept saying, let's, you know, do work on your cashflow and let's make this less stressful. And it never worked because that person was, didn't see the value of, I guess, delaying purchases for another week or another year that they wanted. So then at that point, you can't do anything with it.
Bernie (21:58)
So in the universe of businesses and usually through the plumber or the electrician, the person building a house, they're wanting an operating business that pay the taxes, pay the staff, pay the suppliers, make some good coin, generate, carry on and grow. Sometimes in startups and some other companies, go, listen, I want my bridges to get much bigger. I want to scale.
what are the things they should look at? then how do you handle VC funding or they're going to put themselves on the stock market, which is probably elevating the game a lot.
Martha (22:33)
I can't honestly say I've ever worked with a company that was getting ready to go to market in terms of the stock market. I learned all about it. It's not the space I really work in, but that's a huge compliance issue that takes a team. That's a tremendous amount of work. On the venture capital side, they really need to have their systems in place. So you've got a little startup and I have worked with some of those and they're like, yeah, I really want to grow. Well, it's a...
The first thing you have to change is your mindset from being this tiny little fish to going, how do bigger fish think? Because you got to have the systems in place. You have to be willing to let go of the control. Without letting someone else come in and help, you can't grow because one person can only do so much before you hit a wall. So I would say systems are very important.
the ability to find other people to come alongside for different stages of your company. It may not be the same person through every phase of growth, but certainly having that person that comes in and evaluates your operations admin and what your product or service saying, how can we do this more efficiently and make sure that we have that customer experience so that they can come back? Because without a customer experience, none of us grow.
Basically having that operations and then having that financial piece in place is very important. Because if you don't know where you're going, it's like starting out on a road trip and going, well, I'm going to start driving, but I don't really know where I'm going. Well, who knows where you're going to end up and that financial piece is like that. If you have no idea of how your finances work or where you're going with it, you probably won't get very big. Those dreams you had of wearing the big britches aren't happening.
Bernie (24:14)
So when you're, you mentioned something that was kind of key. You need a second set of hands or more than just a second set. But what I've found and what I've seen is that sometimes the person you're hiring may not be you. In other words, not a mirror mirror on the wall, who's the prettiest of all. You need someone who's either smarter, faster, or brings another thing.
for scaling or growth, might be someone who's not, know, everything doesn't have to be stayed, you know, conservative approach. And I'm not talking political, but like, you know, they really like, you know, no risk at all versus someone who's more risky. Are you involved with the kind of, if a company says, listen, I need to do this and you go, yes, but that ain't you at that element, you need this type of persona. Do you get involved in the hiring and then of
the person that might fill that role that kind of a good fit for that function.
Martha (25:05)
I usually get input. haven't done a lot of hiring per se, but I did that within my own company. My bookkeeper looks at things totally differently. We'll look at this exact same thing, come away with different conclusions. It is a very powerful thing because she sees things that I don't because I'm looking at it from an overhead view and she's going, yeah, from an operational view, that's probably not ideal. So the same thing applies to companies. If you're going to bring someone in, the other thing is do they fit your culture?
That's a huge one. So they can be more risky. I mean, because if you hire a salesperson and they're completely risk adverse, it's going to be an interesting sort of journey. But at the same time, they still have to fit your overall culture and values. Otherwise, you will be unhappy, they will be unhappy, it's not, your sales probably won't work the way you wanted them to.
And obviously you have to have alignment within a company. If you're gonna hire someone, those people also have to work together. Another one of my partners does some work with aligning companies to make sure that you have the right people in the right seats. And that's really what you were addressing. Because a company that has the wrong people in those seats has a hard time moving the needle.
Wayne (26:13)
Martha, I've done quite a few of these podcasts, and one thing I'm hearing with your style is you're half-time CFO and full-time life coach.
that you're actually trying to get in their head and say, well, what do you want? What are we going to do next? How do we develop that? When did you, did that happen accidentally? Did you make a decision? How did you include life coaching into your CFO business?
Martha (26:40)
Very unintentionally. But the truth of the matter is most small business owners don't have someone to talk to. I've often joked and said, you know, I should have added a psychology degree along with a business degree because we all need someone to talk to. And at the end of the day, our friends and spouses kind of get tired of hearing about our business after a while. So who gets to hear about it? It's the person that walks in that's there to help. And if they haven't bought in because of the way I offer my fractional CFO services,
I can't move the needle for them. They may need me, but I also need them.
Bernie (27:11)
So when you're doing the accountability piece.
And I think we touched on a little bit before weekly, quarterly, what's better? And does it depend on the stage of the business? I mean, someone that's been in business for 25 years and you've been with them in the last 15 versus I'm starting up today.
Martha (27:27)
I it depends on what kind of pace the business is moving and who you're actually meeting with. Because you're right, if you've been meeting with them for 15 years, maybe they don't want that weekly meeting. And there's certain times of the year there isn't much happening. Because there's also an ebb and a flow. I if you're working on a capitalization project, you're probably going to be talking a whole lot more than when everybody's gone on vacation. So there's certainly that. But the new business definitely...
you they have to meet more often because in the spaces of a month it's interesting the decisions that can get made. I love it when they come back and go yeah I just spent all this money and I'm looking at them going you know we really hadn't planned for that. So then you start working out from a different angle but it's not ideal because it probably won't you know have be quite as smooth as if we had talked about it first. And that being said it's the business owner's business they can do whatever they want.
But the outcome of their choices is still theirs, right? So if you want those better choices, it's always great to have a sounding board at least. And know what the impact is going to be. You may still choose to make that risky move, but at least you knew the impact or possibility.
Wayne (28:37)
So as a recent author, I wrote a book that had freshly brewed in the title. So I realized coffee is one of those life issues that is much, much bigger than accounting. So tell me what and where is your favorite coffee?
Martha (28:53)
It's actually called Higher Grounds. They make the best coffee. It's smooth, it's pretty amazing. There's also another one that does a really good job. I live in Washington state. We have more coffee stands in small towns than most bigger cities do. Coffee is a huge deal. And so...
It really is about being a connoisseur of coffee and people have different tastes just because I think it's amazing. The next person might go, no, that's not my favorite place. So yes, coffee is a big deal and it has to be done right.
Bernie (29:22)
What, no Tim Hortons?
Martha (29:23)
We don't have Tim Hortons. I have to go across the water to Victoria to get to Tim Hortons.
Bernie (29:28)
Wow. I thought they were in the States.
Martha (29:30)
I think there's a few towards the east, but not really on the west coast. So yes, when I run up to Victoria, I'll go to Tim Hortons, because you've got to do it.
Wayne (29:41)
So if you get this and you go, I have a bookkeeper and I have an accountant, but man, I'm out of control. I need a CFO and it should be, maybe it's Martha. How do they get a hold of you?
Martha (29:55)
So for those that would like to have a conversation, and I love to to small business owners, maybe I should say that too, I enjoy conversations with small business owners. You can reach out to me through my website at successprofitplanning.com or emailing me at mgordash at successprofitplanning.com. I will even answer my phone.
if people really go looking for that. But you can also find me on LinkedIn. Just look for my name, Martha Gordash, and I should, I don't think there's anyone else with that name on there, so it should be easy to
Bernie (30:32)
And where are your clients located typically?
Martha (30:34)
Right now I have clients across the US. So most of my construction oriented clients are local. They tend to like a local touch. Service based businesses are across different places.
Bernie (30:46)
I want to say thank you so much for being our guest today and ⁓ talking to us about coffee in the Washington state as well as how to manage numbers. To my co-host, Wayne Pratt, thank you. And you, the Knack 4 Business listeners, really appreciate your time. So coffee, talk to Martha. She can put you in some directions. Apparently, there's no shortage. And if you have a belief that you're running into some issues with your business and it's related to money,
and or, you know, major plans and where you want to go next. Martha is the obvious choice to reach out to because she can help guide you in