Frances Strickland of VeroLead shows SMB owners why chaos is a signal of broken systems, and how structure, leadership, and flow turn unpredictable revenue into predictable profit. For owners who feel busy but stuck.
GROWTH PILLAR: Leadership & Ops
WHO THIS IS FOR: SMB owners / Solopreneurs / Corporate escapees / Leaders building systems
WHAT THEY'LL GAIN: A clear way to spot friction points in the business, fix cash flow timing problems, and build small weekly habits that make profit predictable instead of accidental.
Why does your business feel chaotic even when you are working nonstop?
Frances Strickland, founder of VeroLead, joins us to unpack why chaos is not a badge of honour. It is a signal of weak structure, unclear leadership, and broken flow.
Frances spent over 30 years inside global corporations — supply chain, HR, plant management, joint ventures across 17 markets — before building VeroLead to help business owners reset how they run.
She walks through the three levers she uses on every engagement: structure (the systems that produce the work), leadership (the clarity that drives execution), and flow (the handoffs and decisions where friction hides).
Along the way she shares the story of the rapid heartbeat that sent her to the ER, the high-ticket client she fired because he would not do the work, and the old recipe for ham that explains why so many business owners do things they cannot explain.
Key topics covered:
Connect with Frances:
Also mentioned:
— PARTNERS ON THIS EPISODE —
Next steps
Bernie (00:22)
So question to the listener. Why does your business feel chaotic, even when you are working nonstop? Our guest will break down why chaos isn't a badge of honor. It's a signal of broken thinking, weak structure, and missing systems. She'll show you how to replace grind and confusion with clarity, calm execution, and practical profitability systems that make results predictable instead of accidental.
If you're tired of the hustle, stealing your time, energy and profit, stay with us. This conversation will help you reset how your business runs and put you back in control. Our guest today is Frances Strickland from VeroLead. She's the founder and a no-nonsense profitability strategist who works with executives, owners and senior operators responsible for real financial outcomes. With over 30 years of experience guiding high stakes decisions across industries and geographies, Frances
helps organizations reset how they run, simplifying structure, tightening execution, and building systems that remove friction so profit becomes more predictable. Her approach is practical, direct and grounded in what really works, not theory or corporate jargon. Shaped by strong role models in her parents and her grandparents, Frances has been leading for most of her life.
starting at age 16 when she was already a CEO and driving a school bus. Frances, absolute pleasure having you here today. Thank you so much. I'm ask you for a favorite quote or saying and we're also gonna ask about the bus. Go ahead, Frances.
Frances (01:46)
Ha
Frances (01:46)
Well, first of all, Bernie, thank you so much. Wayne, it's so good to see you. It's really a pleasure for me to be here with you and to have this chance. Let's talk a little bit about what I do and hopefully to be able to serve your audience with something that will help them.
Bernie (02:03)
So you have a favorite quote. So where did that come
Frances (02:06)
from?
Frances (02:07)
Mm. Well.
Frances (02:08)
Actually, the foundation of it came from Nelson Mandela. But I, you know, he basically said that he couldn't fail. And, you know, for any of us that know his background, yeah, he was on quite a journey. And, and really, you know, in his quest to bring equality and resolve apartheid there in South Africa, he ultimately
paid a very huge personal price, but you know that price could have broken him and made him give up but instead He had the mindset that he wasn't a failure and that he either learned from it or
Frances (02:42)
Hmm.
R
T
Frances (02:51)
you know, he had to succeed, but it's just not possible. You can't fail unless you give up. So I adopted that as my motto as well. people, unless you give up, you can't fail. And at least in my own life, I either succeed, I learn something, or, you know, I really just have to become different, transform. So that's how I got to where I am.
Bernie (03:14)
In this North American culture, everyone says hustle's everything. You gotta hustle, hustle, hustle. I hear you don't agree.
Frances (03:21)
No.
Frances (03:23)
No,
but that's the result of a journey, Wayne. I have to be transparent about that. It was a journey and coming to a realization that there is something better and it is about a wholeness of life and living. And so no, I don't agree.
Bernie (03:43)
school buses. What's that all about? I'm trying to think. A learner's permit usually starts at age 16, but to be a bus driver already? What's that all about?
Frances (03:51)
Hey, well, you know, I grew up in South Carolina and you literally could have your license to drive at 16. And at that time when I was in school, students were school bus drivers. And my father, who was an educator, he was the assistant principal. And, you know, he says, that's a good job.
for a high school. It's responsible, it paid well, and guess what? I am going to be able to watch you. I wasn't the only one. I have two sisters, all three of us were bus drivers.
Frances (04:26)
So I.
Frances (04:32)
All three of us.
Bernie (04:33)
How big a bus?
Frances (04:34)
Bigger bus? Oh, that bus, wow. It was a long one. It was, what? I said, what? How many rows? It's hard for me to remember. I just remember the bus number. I remember the bus number. But I would say probably 65 to 75 students possible.
Bernie (04:51)
Wow.
Frances (04:51)
Some routes, know, routes, longer routes might be doubled up. Rarely did we have a situation where students would be standing. We wouldn't allow that. We'd just have to put another bus on the route. But sometimes, I mean, every seat would be full. It'd be three to a seat, two, you know, on either side of the bus, right? So that would be six across. So yeah.
Bernie (05:14)
So you say that chaos isn't just annoying, dangerous. Unpack that!
Frances (05:18)
Yeah. Well, let me tell you a little story.
Frances (05:19)
Well,
Chaos.
Frances (05:23)
is going to cause a nervous system reaction. Bite, flight, or freeze creates cortisol in the body, right?
Frances (05:31)
But.
Frances (05:31)
Chaos also really makes a person feel totally out of control. And so in their effort to regain control, they are going to do some things they would never do. They had a moderated, calm perspective on what was happening around them.
Frances (05:47)
if they
Frances (05:54)
And the more that a person operates at this highly activated level, ultimately their logic, their reason, all of that deteriorates. And then they start making poor decisions. And if you're running a business, a series of poor decisions can be disastrous. The other part is, is that it affects you physically.
So here's an example. I told you I would share a story. I had just gotten back from Europe. I had two assignments. The second one I'm still doing. But the first one, I just returned. come back into a new job. I arrived on a Monday. And on a Tuesday, we had global, you know, my global teammates coming in for us to meet to talk about operations. I was in supply chain and we had a dinner, right?
We had the dinner. I came back, got in my car, and all of a sudden I had this rapid heartbeat. I had never had it before. And I mean, it was so scary, but I didn't try to push through it. I just drove to the hospital. And, you know, as I sat there in the emergency room and, you know, the doctor's looking at me and I'm saying, hey, you know, I feel like my heart is about to jump out of my chest.
I've never had this. I realized something has to give. Why is this? The big why? Why is that? And actually I felt out of control. I was going into a new role. I had just left one. I'm meeting these people that I didn't know half of them. I felt out of control.
speaker-3 (07:10)
Thanks
Bernie (07:29)
Wow. So here's a question for you. You started leading early and that's exciting. And when you're doing the learning, at some point you decide to codify it to say, this is leadership. When did you make that decision to go from learning it to teaching it?
Frances (07:45)
Mmm. Well.
It's a...
Frances (07:47)
should I say?
Frances (07:48)
Bye.
Frances (07:48)
Part of it is that was the benefit of growing up with educators because they were always teaching. And even I remember as a first grader, as a first grader, my teacher was out ill. And one day the principal came into the wing, you know, he came down to the primary school wing.
Frances (07:50)
That was.
Frances (08:12)
and he was asking where the teacher was. And so the lead, the head teacher said, well, she's out sick, but it's not a problem. We've got it covered. Why did they have it covered? Because there I was at the front of the class with a ruler pointing to things on the board, ABC teaching my fellow classmates.
Frances (08:23)
Well,
Frances (08:37)
I also did the lunch report, the milk report, and then if I had problems, I'd go and tell the head teacher. Okay? So that was ingrained to lead. However, as I grew in my experience and actually started working in the corporate environment, I realized that there were such gaps between what
senior leaders were expecting from, you know, supervisory staff, because I started as a production supervisor, by the way, in manufacturing. I realized it was such a gap between what they expected and what was really happening. And through just learning kind of the core leadership practices that have followed me my entire life now, I realized that I could make a difference.
Frances (09:17)
You
for.
Frances (09:28)
other leaders if I would take the opportunity to teach them. And so actually it really started within the first three years of my corporate career that I saw that opportunity to make a difference for all the leaders.
Bernie (09:43)
It's interesting as you're describing this, and we touched on chaos, is it the perception the person has, which is causing them the internal anxiety, the blood pressure, the sleepless nights, or is it
best kind of define chaos as a necessity because if everything is status quo, you know, do you actually have to wake up everything will run by itself, which we know won't happen. You know, best laid plans and mice and men. So there's always a little element of chaos and just it's a matter of adjusting the flow. And I'm thinking from a business perspective, right? Some days I'm thinking I mapped this out and I mapped this out really well.
And all of a sudden there's a hiccup in the process. Either someone's going to bill me too much for the service and I'm going, I have to reroute. Right. So it provides a moment of chaos, but also provides a moment of opportunity. do you leverage the chaos or do you just, is it just putting the structure because everybody assembled the marbles, but they're still all still rolling around? Or is it like the marbles are coming together going, hang on, I see it. You know, how does that, how does that kind of resolve itself?
Frances (10:46)
You know, Bernie, that I like the way you said it because here's the reality. What can happen will happen at some point. OK. You it's impossible to plan out the risk. It's impossible to plan for everything. You know, I found this out when because it's part of my role, I used to write.
Frances (10:46)
Sure.
Frances (11:09)
employer relations policies. And the leaders would say, well, Fran, can you write it so that it's easy for people to understand and it just tells us exactly what we need to do? And I said, no, no, no, you're a leader. So you have to be able to take the principles and make decisions. That's part of the process. And what you're saying, Bernie, part of it is perception.
Frances (11:13)
the
Frances (11:36)
It may spring from a lack of prethinking the possibilities. Going in with what I call kind of the rose-colored glasses and you know, I really planned this out so I know everything is gonna be great. And then you get surprised. The element of surprise may throw a person off. And if their natural response is,
to feel threatened. And that is evident in other parts of their lives, by the way, not just at work, but if their natural response is to feel threatened and to be defensive, then their way of thinking makes it much bigger. They'll globalize it. They will think, you know, wow, you know, I don't know what to do. When if...
they can take a moment and step back. That chemical reaction that happens because of the surprise dissipates and then they can come back to center and say, okay, what do I do about it? In some cases, it really is chaos. When there's a lack of systems, when, you know, I've been in situations where
In fact, I have a client right now and it's really interesting. He had an employee that said, I can take care of this. All I need is this, this and this. And the boss said, well, you know, let me go pick up this, this and this, but he forgot. Two weeks later, the employee is still waiting for this, this and this to come.
Okay. That employee is in chaos because he wants to move on to do his work, but his boss has just told him, I can get this, this and this, but his boss has forgotten. That employee's ability to perform is at the whim of the bandwidth of that boss to remember that creates chaos. So literally certain things can be happening in the system.
that is beyond a person's control truly, and they have to figure out how do I manage this without offending someone or creating another issue.
Bernie (13:46)
It almost sounds like if you're an adrenaline junkie, you're all set because chaos is part of it. If you do the Red Bull challenge, you're flying out of a plane and you're skydiving with no parachute. Yeah. Versus the... So is it driven by the persona and also driven by the company culture? Because if the boss says, listen, I'll get you these three parts and boss ⁓ slips of mind, stuff happens. And the employee is going, hmm, it's been a week. I can't move forward.
Would it not be a natural trigger going, yo boss, where are we at with that? Right. Because this will move a lot faster. You complete your part of the burger, buddy.
Frances (14:21)
You're right.
Frances (14:23)
That's right. And that is the question. I ⁓ courageous enough to go and say to the boss, hey, just want to remind you, I need this. Do I have the skills to ask the question? OK. But there are people who like confusion. They like it. I have friends like that, that if there is no confusion, they create one. I have a friend. I have a friend who, you know,
Frances (14:28)
you
Frances (14:47)
kind of periodically falls out with long standing friends just to have the chaos. Our people made that.
Frances (14:53)
They are that way.
The reality is, is that if.
Frances (14:58)
If we can take moment, I'm a big proponent of proactive thinking and trying to get in front of possible scenarios. If we can take a moment to anticipate that people will be here, that things don't always go the way we'd like them to go, a great awareness of who we are, how are we going to handle the unexpected?
Frances (14:59)
take a
human.
We
could just. ⁓
Frances (15:25)
just
have a little bit of awareness, it can really alleviate that loss of control, chaotic feeling that we can experience. But life happens. And if we are Pollyannish about it, okay, life happens and we are going to run amok. We'll run amok or it'll run amok.
Bernie (15:46)
And you're in corporate and you're fixing these problems and sometimes they work well, sometimes they don't work as well as you'd like, but you keep at it and you're doing good and you're getting reviews and somehow you said I could do this for different companies and it's a better fit. Tell me about how you decided to leave corporate and why and how's it been?
Frances (16:08)
Okay. Well, it's back in 2013 and I'm on vacation and I'm reading the book Rich Dad Poor Dad. And I don't, you know, I can't remember the line, but I do remember that light bulb going off when I realized, wow.
Frances (16:12)
patient.
I
Frances (16:25)
spent
nearly my entire life because I had a long corporate career building other people's dreams. Now to say that is not being negative. It's a real because if anyone's read Rich Dad Poor Dad, there's the dad that's working for someone for the retirement.
Frances (16:37)
organization.
Frances (16:47)
And then there's the dad that's building a business, right? And I really, I, for people who are building a business and doing it very hard, very long hours, constantly on from an emotional perspective, from, you know, trying to have the fastest answers, the right answers, the broader, you know, all knowing everything that was happening and
Frances (16:51)
Otherwise, I had been working.
Frances (17:14)
That really destroying me. It was destroying me physically because remember in this period of time, I started up, I was the head of HR for a greenfield startup, meaning there wasn't even a building. And it was in a joint venture with a German company and a Japanese company.
Frances (17:24)
to hear.
Frances (17:36)
in an agrarian society community manual tech automotive
Frances (17:40)
manufacturing high tech.
Bernie (17:42)
comments.
Frances (17:43)
Okay, so.
That was doing that and I'm saying, I'm gonna do about it. I said, I want to start building something. I can serve other people, but it's mine. It's my dream. That was 2013. I, it was seven years before I did anything with it.
Frances (17:45)
realization that I had been
What are you going
Bye.
Bernie (18:06)
I'm just in my mind, I'm picturing you, so you've just said German and Japanese and German, everything is, there's a term my uncle used to refer to, rucksack. It's like everything's like, it has a place, it has a time. From a cultural perspective, do you find that, because you do international work, do you find that some people handle the chaos going, yes, that's unfortunate and make good with it? Are the people?
This is not so good, but ⁓ this is our expert, in which case, you know, the higher consultant or have a special team that handles the chaos. Do you find that happening?
Frances (18:40)
Mmm.
Frances (18:41)
So I'm just going to quickly step through. So I work for this joint venture where it's 50-50. I've also worked in a French organization, as well as I've worked here in Europe. I worked with 17 different markets.
Frances (18:49)
bad dynamic.
Frances (18:58)
each market or you could say it was basically a country, there was a frame that they worked in. And I remember particularly in Europe when I came here as the head of HR for the region, that one of the things that struck me immediately was how much, how important it was to
to have discussion about a topic before anything happened.
We kind of say we have a meeting. I say it's like going to church. have a meeting inside the building, but we resolve it outside. And then somewhere along the line, we jump in and say, OK, let's go do it. And we don't want to talk about it. We say, OK, we got it. Let's go. That was not the way we had to work And so there was always this balancing act. And we did use consultants.
But those consultants had to be very adept at maneuvering and going across those different cultural, I call cultural elements so that we could get to solutions that really work for the region.
Frances (19:52)
.
Bernie (20:06)
Wow. Congratulations, by the way. Congratulations, by the way. I don't see any gray hair at all.
Frances (20:11)
Ha
Frances (20:11)
That's from my grandmother.
Frances (20:13)
Hahaha!
Bernie (20:14)
So you've got this corporate rule book, I guess, and you understand about SOPs and things, when you're in a standard operational procedures, but when you're in a startup and you're moving at 80 miles an hour, how do you even get the understanding about how to simplify the process?
Frances (20:23)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-3 (20:36)
Thanks.
Frances (20:36)
There is
Frances (20:37)
lies
the reason why I'm around.
The reality is, is when people are riding the bicycle and putting on the wheels, there is no room to figure out is this right? I just need to ride the bicycle, but I don't have any wheels. And you know, it's not an indictment of entrepreneurs. I I started my own business and that was an adaption from being in a corporate, a very structured environment to the reality of running a business.
Frances (20:54)
That is.
Frances (21:08)
So.
Frances (21:08)
In the absence of having
Frances (21:09)
absence, in the absence of
a mentor, someone to help you think about those things.
speaker-3 (21:16)
Thanks.
Frances (21:17)
One of what helped me was my notebook.
speaker-3 (21:19)
you
Frances (21:21)
I have a notebook here. Okay, so I always have a notebook. And so when, for example, I hate it selling. I hate it selling. Okay, I was just going to attract my clients.
speaker-3 (21:34)
Okay, mindset.
Frances (21:37)
Right? But the reality is selling is a process. You have to have a selling process. And I realized that every time I sat down and talked to someone, it was different. Now, it doesn't mean that in that selling conversation, you aren't intuiting and listening and you are adjusting how you're interacting with the person in front of you. But you need to have a process because
Frances (21:44)
time.
me.
Frances (22:01)
One is the attraction, one is this conversation. How are you going to nurture it? How are you going to move that conversation forward? And what is the basis of that conversation? Are you adding value or are you coaching too much? Okay. All of that goes into that selling conversation. It helps when you have a process. So I would write it down. Now, the problem with that is it was rolling around in my head.
Frances (22:09)
basis.
speaker-3 (22:10)
station.
Frances (22:27)
even what I had written down because I hadn't shared it. So if you have someone else with you, share it. If don't, guess what? It's still in your head and it doesn't solve any of your problems. And many months or years down the road, you'll have cash because no one else will know what went into that particular activity.
Frances (22:35)
Cause if
us.
Frances (22:53)
that you're doing. Here's a story, and it's about life in general. Once there was a young couple that just got married and the wife would make...
Frances (23:03)
For them.
Frances (23:04)
And so she'd get. And she cut the in off the. And put it in the oven and would come out beautiful in the husband with E. And then started notice there.
Frances (23:05)
Ham.
Yeah.
And he, every
time he had him, his wife.
Frances (23:17)
would cut the end off of the ham and put it in the pot.
Frances (23:21)
And so one day he says, your hat, you know, delicious, but can you tell me why don't you cut the end off the ham? And she said,
Frances (23:29)
Well, you my mom did it and it. It's a taste so much better is this fantastic and so you know I just really want to do the best for you so you know I'm doing it I'm doing it the same way is it not good and it's honey is wonderful. So then one day they're over at the in-laws and he's sitting in the kitchen and he says. You know with.
Frances (23:32)
It just really makes...
When Lisa makes that ham, she
Frances (23:55)
You know, she cuts the end off and she says it really improves the flavor. And I mean, she's a great cook, but she said she learned it from you and Mona said,
Frances (24:05)
See
ya.
Frances (24:06)
Well, I cut the end off the ham because too big for the pie.
Frances (24:09)
It was too.
I
Frances (24:11)
And that's the way it is when you're an entrepreneur and you're running, you're putting the wheels on the bike, you know how to put the wheels on the bike because it's your thing, but it's all in your head. So to the extent to which you can have a notebook and document some of this. And maybe when you get a break, somebody like me can help you get it organized.
Bernie (24:32)
almost as you describe the process, I gotta remember that it's kind of the ends of the ham off there. Hi, honey, I've got a new recipe for you. Not that she wouldn't take heed, but yeah, that'd be interesting. Systems and freedom. Having them allows you the freedom. So in other words, I guess it's controlled chaos. When you're having freedom, then you can shift. It's almost like your notebook. What's the system part that then doesn't, that lets you kind of
Frances (24:52)
Right.
Bernie (24:55)
set it in place, but not also at the same time as a choke point. You don't want it. So the only time you can read or the only time you can learn is between one and two a.m. It's really good if you're a wicked one and two a.m. But so much so if you're a kid. Right. How do you how do you have a system that helps it allow for the freedom without bringing total flush to chaos everywhere? I'm thinking you're I'm thinking you're German, Italian and French clients.
Frances (25:20)
Well, so here's one of the things that when I was working with those leaders and helping them understand that part of leadership is enabling your team to make decisions and to act. And one of the principles were when you
When you get ready to delegate or make an assignment, be clear on what's important to you to know and to be involved with. And that principle applies.
Frances (25:48)
same
speaker-3 (25:50)
Thanks.
Frances (25:51)
As a leader.
Frances (25:52)
You don't need to know everything, but you need to know what is most valuable for what you're trying to accomplish. And that kind of clarity has to come from the leader. And you share that with the team so that on those points they know it's important to come back to you. But if you aren't clear, then people will create their own rules.
and what may be a simple rule will become an interpretation and the interpretation 80 % I'm going to use the 80-20 rule 80 % is going to be the wrong interpretation or it's going to be something that's going to create chaos.
Bernie (26:32)
I love, I have this mental picture of predicting profit. I could see you in a, one of those seance, you know, I predict.
Frances (26:39)
Wait, stop!
Bernie (26:41)
Tell me about profit predictability. This is different. When everyone else is in chaos, you say, no, we can predict this. Tell us what this means.
Frances (26:50)
Okay, so what it means is, okay, let's go back to how I look at a business. So, structure is all of the things that one has to do in a systematic way to either produce a product, get it out, all of those processes around how you make money.
Frances (27:00)
sure.
Frances (27:16)
The leadership is kind of the execution part, that clarity, that controlling part. And then the flow is these points in the system, in the process, handoffs, decisions and whatnot that can muck things up. When I go in and look at a business, I'm looking for those friction points. And these are...
speaker-3 (27:25)
Thanks.
Frances (27:41)
the things that I'm endeavoring to remove from what's happening in the business.
Many times when I talk about what I do, I say every aligned or misaligned decision or action drops to the bottom line. And it does. It flows through the system in one way or another in many ways that you don't even imagine that is happening. So take for example,
Frances (28:07)
cash flow.
Frances (28:08)
and that there's a problem in cash flow, not because you don't have enough revenue, but because when you get your money, doesn't match when you need your money to take care of expenses or to make an investment in the business.
Frances (28:09)
cash flow.
Frances (28:26)
Many times that has to do with your terms to your clients. You give your 90 days because you're a nice guy, nice. Okay. You know, I know they're having a little bit of trouble. So, 120 days, 180 days, and your terms to pay your vendors, your expenses is 30 days. Have a cashflow issue, not because you don't have revenues.
Frances (28:28)
with your client.
Lady. ⁓
They pay nine.
You
Frances (28:52)
because your money timing doesn't match. Okay?
When you solve those kinds of problems in your business, things become more predictable because before it ever happens, you have a little process where on a weekly basis, you look at what's to come in, what's forecasted to come in, what really comes in, what's the gap, and you think.
speaker-3 (29:07)
this.
Frances (29:17)
What does this mean?
Frances (29:18)
for X. Or when you decide to make an investment, you have a budget, you have a plan for the year. You also will be able to see in your business ebbs and flows. Some businesses are seasonal. Some businesses have other things that happen in the external market that affects your income flow. So you plan and
Frances (29:22)
investment.
speaker-3 (29:40)
Thanks.
Frances (29:43)
investment
Frances (29:43)
when you know that your income is going to support that investment. That's predictability. So it's not like a perfect thing where you can sit down and just, okay, I know this is going to happen, but you put little processes around it that keeps you informed so you can see things coming and you can adjust how you plan on whatever it is that you are going to do.
Frances (30:02)
it you can.
Bernie (30:09)
So you kind of walk into a place and they say, listen, I'm feeling out of sorts, I'm not quite sure. How do you spot that point? Like, you know, it's hiding in plain sight, you know, close the window, you won't be so cold if it's, you know, the obvious thing, right? But how do you spot the friction point?
Frances (30:29)
Well, do.
Frances (30:30)
I do a lot. I I spend a good deal of time delving into what's happening in the business. Okay? And I have a framework. When I say a framework, yes, the broad one is structure and leadership and flow. But within each one of those is a series of questions that I ask about the business. But many times, you don't even have to ask those questions.
because a leader will say something like, wow, I've got a lot going on.
And I'll say, tell me what for you.
Frances (31:03)
does that look like?
And never find that they have a love for shiny.
Frances (31:05)
I found out a little thing
shiny new thing okay
Frances (31:09)
or
Frances (31:10)
they will start listing out all of the things that they're doing and I'll ask the question. So tell me, are you pursuing those things, those new income streams because you are actually trying to expand your offer?
Frances (31:24)
or
Frances (31:26)
Is it because you really want to leave your core offer and go in this direction? That tells me whether they're being strategic. Are they chasing cash? Are they chasing position? Those questions just pop up just in the normal conversation and hearing what they're saying.
Frances (31:43)
and during
Bernie (31:46)
You have a phrase that think is worth unpacking, resetting how you run. What does that mean on day-to-day life?
Frances (31:55)
Resetting means, and from my perspective, is you have your current state and you have the future state. What would you really like to see happening in your business? And between those two is what I call the road and the car. Okay, so you have a way to go, you have a route.
And the goal are all of the activities that you do is structure leadership and flow to make it happen. And so resetting means helping that organization, helping that leader to, through self-awareness, systematic analysis of what's happening in the business, questions. You know, I look at financial records and all of those things.
Frances (32:18)
Be a-
organization help
True.
Frances (32:43)
and asking them the question, this is what's happening. Do you believe shit is happening?
Frances (32:47)
What would be happy?
Frances (32:50)
And what are you willing to do to change that?
When they come to terms and say, I'm willing to do this and not that, that's a reset.
Sometimes people will, you I've found some business owners to approach a situation where, in fact, I have one who said, I don't want to do commercial stuff. I don't know anything about it. I don't understand sales and marketing. I need to do something because I'm not going to have any customers. I'm living off of my legacy customers that I got when I acquired the business.
That is a recipe for that business not existing in probably three to five years, right? So he's told me that and I said, well, what do you have today? And he had a customer service rep that he was expecting to do safe. Well, we know that's two different profiles, but I could tell he didn't want to add people.
speaker-3 (33:41)
Thank
Frances (33:49)
So I had to figure out.
Frances (33:51)
How could he?
Frances (33:53)
get out of doing the real hard commercial stuff, play his role as the CEO, and get a system that would support him to attract new clients, to nurture them, and to retain them.
But in order to do that, he needed to an investment to have someone help him do it.
Frances (34:13)
He was prepared
to do that.
How did I?
Frances (34:16)
I
know that because every time I propose and yes, but
Frances (34:19)
to him, he would say,
Frances (34:25)
out so so
Bernie (34:26)
So he sounds like a person that's leading the burnout. that's one circumstance. Or it could be the personalities if you're cross-cultural. What are the quick stress relief? Some people have a smoke, some people have a drink, other people do other things. But what are the healthy, fast relief levers that a person can capitalize on?
to kind of take that stress out.
Frances (34:52)
Nature is a great way to relieve stress. Now, some people don't necessarily have that immediately available, but sometimes getting out in the fresh air, just getting outside of the building, walking around the building can be a relief for you.
I call the great reset, the great reset is gratitude.
And what I mean by that is that
You're facing everything that's happening in the business. You're running here and there, and you're really feeling that pressure. But the pause to say, you know, it's pressure, but I'm really very thankful that I this to be concerned about. This is a good pressure because the alternative is not good. A great reset is gratitude.
Frances (35:22)
this.
Yeah.
I have
Frances (35:46)
And then the next reset is go take a nap.
Think of that because when you wake up, the world seems different.
Bernie (35:55)
So you've watched founders and I would say founders and managers think differently. But when the founder is driving too close to the danger line or hitting 6,000 RPM or whatever metaphor you want, what are the signs that they need to rethink?
Frances (36:11)
call it tunnel vision. So they lock in on something and they cannot see any alternative. Or they see everything through the same lens. So it's like, if you have a hammer, everything is a nail. You've heard that, right? I remember once that I was sent to one of my company's factories.
for that was in a union campaign. And in that, in being in that situation, the plant manager had a logistics background. So, you know, in corporations, we do talent development, we move people around to grow their career. And so she had been in logistics.
and was considered a high potential talent and they wanted her to grow in general management. So plant management was in that line of assignments that she would need to be in. But when she got into the factory, the factory is a lot of things, low quality, all of the things that it takes to make these components.
Frances (37:09)
In effect
Frances (37:18)
But her response was to move things around from what she understood about logistics. Well, in her moving things around, she was also forgetting about some of the employee relations implications, the fact that simply moving things around doesn't account for people having the skills to run certain jobs. Some jobs require a lot more skill than others.
Frances (37:21)
Thanks.
sticks.
application.
Frances (37:43)
Those were elements that she didn't necessarily consider when she would go out and say, well, let's move this over here and let's put this over there. Okay. And so everything was through that view that she had spent years of developing. So essentially part of the process of being an owner,
of founding a business is the capacity to create versatility in your thinking, to see other things. And I guess probably, you know, when they say, you you're a marketer, you're a salesperson, you're an operations manager, you're an HR manager, you're all these things. And the extent to which, one, you can recognize, and if you're able,
to be able to offload some of that to other responsible people, that's the ideal scenario. But that may not always be possible depending upon the stage that you're in. And then that's when you have to prioritize what it is you're gonna focus on.
And so
Bernie (38:48)
Some
companies are an outgrowth of the personality of the founder. And as you said, you have friends that chaos feeds them, they're adrenaline junkies. Have you had to actually tell customers, I really would like your money. And yes, that $30,000 would be a nice deposit check, but I can't work with you. Tell me if that's happened and what you did about it.
Frances (39:09)
Yes, that has happened. It was my first. And one day the the the. I knew the person and he knew that I I coach business owners and I got a text message from him and he says, can we talk? How much does it cost for me to get coaching? Well, I wrote back and said, well. You know.
Frances (39:13)
high ticket client.
then
Frances (39:34)
I can't tell you because I don't do a per hour arrangement. I need to understand what your challenge is. So we had the conversation and he, well, fundamentally he had gone away for holiday for two months in the U.S. and he had shut down all of his revenue generating activity because in his mind he was on holiday. So his sales development
He shut that down. let the people go and have a good time. And I have three people in the pipeline. But when he got back, those three people disappeared. So he had no one in the pipeline. And so as you know, starting from scratch, once you've had it, is very difficult. And he wanted a miracle.
Frances (40:04)
You said, go, go off.
anything.
Frances (40:25)
I knew that, but I was willing to help him. But, you know, I said that about the yes, but that was his thing because in the course of our conversation and I would say, okay, we need to build your presence. Let's leverage LinkedIn a little bit more effectively. Let's talk about your sales process. What are you going to say when you, you know, when you have this warmly or when you don't? And he would say, yes, but I don't want to do that.
Frances (40:48)
with Sam.
Frances (40:51)
No, I don't really want to do these posts. That's what let me do some of the posts. You don't have to post every day, a couple times a week. No, I don't want to do that. So for about three months, because I'm continually looking, what did I commit to and where are we against that commitment? And if we're not making progress, I get real antsy about it.
Frances (41:00)
well I
After.
Frances (41:16)
because it's not just what I'm delivering to that customer, but that's my reputation. Okay? So I'm sitting there and I'm looking and I realize we're not making any progress. He hasn't recovered.
Frances (41:28)
Any client. See?
Frances (41:30)
He's saying
he's having conversations, but he's not. And every time, you know, I would suggest something for him. He would say, yes, but I understand it. So can you write it out and, and coach me through it? But when we would meet, he was off on another topic. He didn't ever want to spend time on that. So I just went to him and I said, you know, it's all me. I own the problem.
Frances (41:39)
or he would say, I
me.
Frances (41:54)
whether it's mine or not, Whether it's mine or not, I own the problem. And so I just went to him and say, you know, it's really important that I'm able to help you and deliver what you need. Now, obviously the success of any consultant is the readiness of that person and they're showing up and doing the work. But again, I own it.
And I was feeling that I was not being effective in getting him to take the steps he needed to do. So I just basically, he didn't get blamed for sure. It was all me. It's like a breakup. It's not you, it's me. And I really want you to be successful and I'm just not hitting the mark for you. And it would be so unfair for me.
to continue with you and you pay the second half of this engagement and you're not getting any results. So I think it's best that we call it a day and part friends. What do you think? And that's what we did. Now, by the way, because most of my processes are front loaded with information, so literally the client can take that front
plant that up and proceed without me. I do that on purpose because things do change in the business and I ultimately want that client to be successful. So yes, he had a front loaded plan. He wasn't executing it, but fundamentally for that first half, compensated me for my services.
Frances (43:07)
plan and they can.
He had,
Frances (43:32)
but for a real money. He wanted 50 % of the money back. I didn't argue. I gave it to him.
Frances (43:32)
He asked me to
Good.
Frances (43:40)
Well
done. Finish.
Bernie (43:42)
Frances, if company says running into issues, what are the tells for them to go pick up the phone or email and reach out to Frances?
Frances (43:52)
when the same issue.
Frances (43:53)
the same questions are recurring. Every month there is a cash... Every month something happens and it's a whole different approach. There is nothing common that can be applied from one situation to another. They need to get some help from Fran or someone like Fran.
Frances (43:58)
issue.
Bernie (44:16)
Perfect.
So if a person wants to work with you, there is a policy, there is a profit pulse that they can check into to get a sense of whether it's a good fit.
Frances (44:26)
Yes, ⁓ I developed that profit pulse so that people could have a chance, know, in the quiet of their office or at home or wherever they are, to actually go through systemically, depending on which stage they are in their business, and look at the structure, leadership, and flow activities that could be affecting their profitability. They go through it, it's self-scoring. Ultimately, it's going to be
Frances (44:36)
systematically upon
to twice.
Frances (44:53)
So I'm really excited about that. But it's self-scoring. It's easy. It gives guides to interpret the scoring and then have a choice. And information that surfaces and go off and start working on it. Or they could give me a call and say, hey, I've done this pulse. You help me think through what it means for me and my business.
Frances (45:02)
They can't take that.
Can you?
Bernie (45:17)
And the best way to find that Fran?
Frances (45:19)
Best way to find it is I'm on LinkedIn. My email address is there. They can DM me directly on LinkedIn and ask for it. They can look in the contact information on LinkedIn and get the email address. And I think we, you know, probably when, you know, they'll be able to pick it up, you know, when this is live, right? So.
Bernie (45:41)
What's your website called?
Frances (45:43)
My website is called Verolead www.verolead.com. Verolead is my trademark. means true leadership. And ⁓ they can find that website to learn more. And actually what they'll learn a lot about is my leadership philosophy because actually the Verolead website was the first website I developed for
Frances (45:43)
website.
Frances (46:06)
the first part of my business, which was leadership and organization.
Bernie (46:09)
Fran, I want to say thank you so much for being our guest today. It's been an awesome conversation. Pleasant as always. Thank you. co-host, Wayne Pratt, and you the Knack 4 Business listeners. Thank you for being attentive to this conversation. So Frances Believes Chaos isn't just a business problem, it's a human one that drains energy, trust, and focus. And whether you're cutting off the ends of the ham or you're going,
Why isn't the money flowing in at the right time? Fran can help you with that. She can help you sort through that and sort through whether it's a cultural shift, because you're working internationally with different companies. And you should always expand your horizons. It offers great new opportunities. But Fran's there also to help support that opportunity so it stays smooth and you're happy and content, as opposed to feeling in total chaos, assuming you're not an adrenaline junkie.
Frances (46:58)
Trust me.