Debra Workman of Patients Mirror reveals how patient stories are closing healthcare gaps — and why being heard is the first step to better care.
GROWTH PILLAR: Health & Wellness
WHO THIS IS FOR: SMB owners in the health space / Caregivers / Healthcare professionals / Policy advocates / Solopreneurs building in wellness
WHAT THEY'LL GAIN: Real strategies for patient advocacy, insight into Canadian healthcare gaps, and a clear picture of how storytelling drives policy change.
Most healthcare systems say they put patients first. But when was the last time they actually asked?
Debra Workman is the CEO of Patients Mirror — a healthcare storytelling and awareness platform that gives patients, caregivers, and professionals a real voice. She joined Bernie Franzgrote on Knack 4 Business to talk about the gaps nobody wants to admit exist — and how telling the right stories is changing that.
Debra shares her own experience leaving a trauma unit without follow-up instructions after a serious car accident. She had a cracked sternum, elevated troponin levels, and zero guidance on what came next. She had to figure it out herself. Most patients don't have that advantage.
Through Patients Mirror, Debra collects those stories. Then she brings them to the people with the power to act — policymakers, pharmaceutical companies, foundations, and healthcare organizations. The goal is simple. Close the gaps. Change the policy. Help people live more normal lives.
Key topics covered:
Connect with Debra Workman:Patients Mirror | Email: debra@patientsmirror.com | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | TikTok
Also mentioned: Wayne Pratt — Motive8U | Co-host, Knack 4 Business
This episode is brought to you by:Canada Growth Network — Full GHL CRM + membership community. $1 CAD first month. $47/month. No contract. Web Indexer — Smart chatbot for the K4B site. Find episodes, book meetings. Gentry Learning — Property Wizard — Real estate investing podcast and platform.
Have a story to tell or a gap to close? Reach out: info@kreativinsight.com
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Bernie (00:05)
So a question for the audience. Have you ever felt lost or unheard in the healthcare system, like your story didn't matter? That's exactly what our guest is here to change. In this episode, she reveals how patient voices are reshaping healthcare from faster diagnoses to compassionate care. Tune in to learn how storytelling
Empathy and innovation are bridging the gap between patients, professionals, and policy, and how you can be part of the movement for a more humane healthcare system. Our guest today is Debra Workman from Patients Mirror. She's the CEO of Patients Mirror, bringing both heart and strategy to the conversation on healthcare transformation.
Born in Cornwall, Ontario, her lifelong curiosity for science and wellness began as a volunteer candy striper at Hotel Dew Hospital. That early spark evolved into a purpose-driven career amplifying the real voices of patients, caregivers, and healthcare professionals. Through patients mirror, Debra shines a light on healthcare gaps, driving awareness for faster diagnosis, equitable access, and compassionate policy change.
She also partners in Infocraft, a healthcare marketing agency that serves on the board of UC Lab where she supports AI innovation and medical research. Beyond Her Professional World, Debra's love for art, travel, animals, and lifelong learning.
fuels her belief that empathy, respect, and shared humanity are the the true foundations of better health. Debra was previously featured on season three, episode 27 of the Knack for Business podcast, which was recorded last October. Debra, absolute pleasure to have you here. Welcome. Do you have a favorite quote or saying you'd like to share?
Debra (01:50)
When a task has begun, leave it not until it's done. Be it a matter of grade or small, do it well or not at all. So that is actually something I like to live by and I bring that and that passion to what I do. If you're going to do something and you start it, finish it, and if you can't do it well, don't do it at all.
Bernie (02:10)
So your role as a volunteer at an early age, that planted the seed. Was it seeing the patients? Was it hearing their story? Was it hearing the staff? Because everybody has a story in that whole of
Bernie (02:23)
Right
Debra (02:24)
I do have a story. was quite young. I think maybe was maybe 10 or 11 when I started candy striping. I don't know if anybody remembers what candy striping is. So I'll give you a little bit of background on that first. candy striping is like volunteers in the hospital, but you got this little red and white striped jumper and a little hat like a little nurse's hat. Nurses don't even wear hats anymore. Anyway, they had the little nurse's hat and we had a little name tag and we would go around from room to room bringing water.
and helping serve the dinner trays. But we'd do anything else. So I remember one particular incident, which again, for me, probably drove some of my passion. There was an elderly lady that had been in the hospital for a while. And she was asking me if I could trim her toenails. Now I didn't know it had permission to trim her toenails, but it was a need that she had that she couldn't get anybody to service.
Every patient has a story. Well, this lady had a story and the story was that she couldn't get some of the things that she really needed done. Anyway, long story short, I trimmed her toenails. But that, you know, made me realize that...
not all the needs of patients are being met and not all the needs are necessarily medically related. Most of your medical related needs are served. It's all the other things around it.
Bernie (03:50)
So you've just, you just kind of explained something that's really interesting because having been in the healthcare space myself.
There's the medical stuff, like I don't understand what's happened to me. You what does this do to me? How does that work? How long you to be out
How long is it gonna take me to get back on my feet, right? And get back to my normal life, if at all impossible. What are the implications to my family, et cetera? Those are typically the medical questions that might roll in. But some of the other ones are, ⁓ where do I park? What are my follow-up meetings ⁓ or follow-up appointments? Am I supposed to experience pain? Wound management.
Right. It's medical, but it's, you you're now at home, right? How do I, how do I set these things up? How much of a, how much of a bubble is that a change for somebody when, know, all of a sudden not planning to go, it's like you're going to a spa. You know, some people do plan for medical procedures, but if it's an unplanned event, how much of an impact has that to the, to every, every part of that person?
Debra (04:54)
So, know, needless to say, we talked to a lot of patients on any day we were talking to patients and they're telling us their story. And so the stories are, you I have, you know, I ended up in a hospital. I'm going to tell you my story, my story. I ended up in trauma unit. So I'm in the trauma unit, just wanting to leave the trauma unit. It's all I want to do is get out of here. Anyway, you know, they, they were, I have to say the first responders were
Bernie (05:20)
Amazing.
Debra (05:22)
They were amazing. Everybody that I dealt with was amazing. But you get to see all the other things that are going on in the hospital while you're there, right? And then when I did leave the hospital, they released me and I came home and they're telling me the things I can and cannot do.
Debra (05:44)
you
Debra (05:45)
And I'm relatively versed in this area, so I did some research and I had a cracked sternum and I had taken a, what the cardiologist had said, an equivalent of a punch to my heart. My tropamine levels were quite high and when they released me, they were trending down. They still weren't in the safe, the normal zone, but they were trending down. So, you know, after that, I wanted to know when can I go
Debra (06:13)
to the gym.
Debra (06:15)
When can I go back to jogging? When can I lift weights again? When can I, when can I, can Cause you don't get that information when they release you from the trauma unit. And people were asking me, so when are you going to go back and see the cardiologist? Since the trauma unit, they don't do follow up. They don't do follow up. So, you know, it's up to the individual to be an advocate for their own health, to do the, to make the calls, to find out who
all the information they need. And I'm very fortunate because I am working so much in the healthcare space. I have a lot of people I can actually talk to. So I found out a lot of information. But had I just been, you know, the regular, you know, regular person that had been in the car accident release would not know what to do. Anyway, I, you know, so I called my family doctor. I booked an appointment. went very...
Lucky I have a family doctor. I booked an appointment, told him what happened. And I had a meeting with him, a call with him and just asking him, you know, when can I start jogging again? You know, and he's also, he's saying, you know, you need to do it. You can't just go out and start jogging again. You took a punch to the heart. And when can I, you're not apparently getting a crack sternum, takes a long time to heal. So you have, yeah, it takes a long time to heal.
takes a you can't lift anything heavy for I forget what it was six weeks or 12 weeks you can't do any lift any you know over your head and and it can take up to a year for
Debra (07:49)
The...
Debra (07:51)
to them to heal. If you do things that doesn't heal, then you can get infection, you can have to have staples. Anyway, there was a lot of information I was not provided when I left the hospital. And no follow-up. There is no follow-up out of trauma, and I'm sure there's no follow-up. I know there's no follow-up after you leave ICU either, because you're to go back to if you...
If you're in the ICU because you have, you know, had a reaction to chemo, well, you're just going to go back to your cancer doctor. But in my case, this was a traumatic accident. I don't normally see a cardiologist, so therefore I don't have a cardiologist, you know? So I had to go back to my family doctor, get him referring me to all these different places to do the follow-up, to make sure it was safe for me to continue on doing what I was doing before the accident.
Bernie (08:46)
hit on two points and I'm thinking of so just went through recent house renovation and the guy says, do you want this, this or this? And I'm looking at him going, you know, they're like, it's not medical, but it's like a shower head, right? Do this one or this one? What the heck's the difference other than the name and obviously the dollar value, right? And he says, because, you know, it's like, you've never shopped for a car before. You don't know, left, right.
That one, right? So in this case, I'm doing the prompting. And we sorted ourselves out and explained why, right? It's for longevity, et cetera. In the health care space, if you have a question, like in other words, if you're the patient and you're not with it, then it's going to be harder. Your family has to figure stuff out to help you or your support circle. Is there a place to go and you go.
Okay, we just crossed a threshold here. What's next? you see something like this, making a question pop up in your head. Is there a place to pick up that information and go, okay, you've crossed a threshold. Here are the questions to ask. Is there some sort of, is there a bot out there? Is there a group out there? Like, where do you go next to get that more informed ⁓ information?
Debra (10:01)
So it would depend on what you're diagnosed with. If you go to the hospital and you're diagnosed with cancer, or the Canadian Cancer Association, there are many, many different cancer groups that you could turn to to get information that would help you out and guide you through it. We are currently working with the amazing woman that had twin boys, and one of the boys has autism.
Debra (10:05)
You
No.
Debra (10:26)
And she wrote a book because if your child has autism, to find support, to understand what's going on, to find the right support for that is there is no, there's no groups. There's no, you have to find it on your own. So she wrote, she actually wrote a book to help other parents, families who have children that are diagnosed with autism. Where to go, you know, why, you know,
Debra (10:54)
and
Debra (10:56)
What is amazing about her is that she works in the healthcare space and has made sure that everything she's put in her book is referenced by a medical study. So, you know, definitely worthwhile getting this book and, you know, but that is one area. There are people who have, you know, if you have a rare condition or if you have a condition that's not been diagnosed, you're pretty much on your own.
Debra (11:20)
And that's
Debra (11:20)
That's
why it's important for patients to tell their story.
Bernie (11:25)
That's where I was going to go next. So patience mirror. So walk me through that space and what's the purpose and how does how does how do you feed the information in and how's the information come out?
Debra (11:37)
So the purpose of the space is to give the patient the opportunity to tell their story. And we're not looking for a story of all the things that went wrong when you were diagnosed. We're looking for the story of an individual who goal in life was to be a university professor. And as they went through life, they
kept hitting obstacles and finding out why the hip obstacles and finally being diagnosed. So one gentleman was diagnosed with autism at 40 years old. He didn't get to be a university professor, but he did end up being a teacher. And it's a great life about, it's a great story about someone's life who happens to have...
Debra (12:24)
I can dish it.
Debra (12:26)
And so our goal is to tell people stories about their dreams to be dancers or models or their story. But we also want to hear their story on the health part of it as well to identify if there's gaps and to draw attention to educate the public, to let the patient themselves share their story and to hopefully
change policy to hopefully find resources or find to help fill in those gaps. There are so many different things that are going on. Like one of them is that some drugs are paid for by the government or private health care, but the ancillaries that are used for those patients. if you have to infuse daily and you have to have an infusion pump, the pump itself is not covered.
There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot. People don't know that these pumps are extremely expensive and and
the patient has to find their own funding. It's just like, you know, if you have to go, if you have a condition where you have to have infusion done at the hospital all time, which is often, or dialysis or whatever, and you don't have access to a vehicle, you're going to have to take a cab. So once a week you're paying for a cab to go, and if you live far away from the hospital, it's more expensive. And people don't realize the burden it is on the individual, not just the condition they have, but the cost impact of it.
And if you can't afford it, then you need to ⁓ see if you can find family to drive you back and forth. And then it's the impact on them. And so a lot of people are not aware of.
the story. But also we want the public to know that these are real people with real dreams, real aspirations. They want to be their dream is to be a scientist. We have one girl who's got colitis and is going through to be a doctor. And it's because she was diagnosed with colitis has driven her passion for science and
Debra (14:14)
and
Debra (14:24)
to want to help other people. So she's telling her story for us, but she's also going through to be a medical doctor so she can actually help patients. And I think that's a great story.
Bernie (14:36)
So we've just covered the patients, the stories where they can also go and understand what's going on, depending on the nature of the malaise. But that's not the whole purpose, though. There's a flip side to the system, right? It's to the system itself. And not to be adversarial, but it's trying to fine tune.
How's that uptake working? How's that uptake been working?
Debra (15:04)
It's
actually been pretty good. It's actually been pretty good because we get to actually talk to policy makers.
Debra (15:13)
Mm.
Debra (15:14)
The
policymakers often are not even aware that there is a need or a need for a change or a need for funding or they are not aware of it. And so until they are brought until it's brought to their attention and it is a need that is significant, then they will actually make the policy changes. I'm going to give you a for instance. So
Debra (15:37)
There.
Debra (15:38)
There
is a condition where with their small intestine either missing completely or not attached to itself. So like it's got pieces of it, the small intestine, but they're not attached to itself. There is a drug that will regrow the small intestine.
Bernie (15:39)
children are born.
Debra (15:55)
It's approved and available by all provinces except for BC. Now, just so you know, that policy has changed and it is now available in BC. But it wasn't available. So there was a young girl who was three years old who'd never tasted food, who'd never had ice cream, who'd never had chocolate, who'd never had spaghetti because everything is being fed to them.
in a tube. This another child who lives in Alberta was 12 years old, started taking the drug that re-grew your intestine and had the feeding tubes and one day just took them out by herself and she could eat. She was eating like she just started eating it normal. I mean obviously she still can't eat the same hard to digest foods but still could have ice cream. And so
There are two provinces with two different patients who suffering from the same condition. One is getting a product that is not available in the other province. And by bringing the problem to the policy makers and the decision makers and telling the story of these patients and how it impacts their lives makes a big difference. And now, of course, the
DC does prove this drug. But this is just a small sampling of what can happen through the process.
Bernie (17:28)
So you're a marketing firm in the medical space. have science, you have emotions, you have patients, people that are like, what the heck's going on? if you had a bump, it could be giving the cab ride to access to a medication. From a marketing perspective for Patients Mirror, would you describe this as a
⁓ a gentle campaign mechanism, not to shame somebody in, but more just to shed light then for all the players.
Bernie (18:05)
is to
Debra (18:06)
awareness. It is to highlight the gaps. It is to find people to help either mitigate those gaps, remove those gaps, but make change. I mean the whole purpose of this is driven from my passion, from my journey with my own sister. And it's to make change so that people have normal lives.
Regardless if they have a condition, if they can have a relatively normal life and have a relatively normal lifestyle and not be as impacted by their condition, that's our goal.
Bernie (18:39)
Are there any misconceptions around healthcare marketing?
Debra (18:43)
Health care marketing or?
Bernie (18:46)
So my prompt here is what's one misconception about healthcare marketing you'd love to correct once and for all. That said, that kind of a true?
Debra (18:54)
Well,
you know in Canada you cannot market cannot do can't market directly to the public unless you're a third party Independent third party. You can't be a drug company marketing directly to the public you can't be a You can't market directly to doctors. You can't market you can't market to anybody because that's not how our
Our regulations are set up. In the US, if you're a drug company, can market directly to the public, know, try Viagra or try Cialis or try Ozempic and you'll lose 50 pounds or whatever. But in Canada, you cannot market directly to the public. And yet we're right next door hearing all their TV ads. I mean, it's in my world, that just doesn't make a lot of sense.
Debra (19:39)
Yes.
Debra (19:41)
because it's the same drug
being marketed where we all hear the American, I mean, most of stuff I have on TV is American TV channels.
Debra (19:46)
I don't know why.
Bernie (19:51)
Yeah.
Debra (19:52)
So it's interesting.
Bernie (19:53)
You know, in comparison to the US, because the US is
Debra (19:57)
We have
an amazing healthcare system.
Bernie (19:59)
Yeah, I I get that part. There, the hospital typically runs as a business. Runs as a business here, except it's funded mostly by the state, with a few exceptions or a few elements that are... is there any part that you would see that would be, if you were to cast a quick look at it, this would help improve the system if...
Debra (20:22)
There's so many ways to improve the system, but I would say the number one system, number one thing that the government and healthcare need to do is listen to the patients. Like the patient, you you hear that they, you know, I hear it all the time that everybody is patient centric and yet patients are never asked what they think about something.
So now I'm going to give you, instance, I was privileged to hear that they were going to be introducing AI in the Northern communities to do triage. Did they ask the patients if they wanted AI to be doing their triage? And knowing how AI myself, how good is this database? Where did you get this database of symptoms and, you know, because triage is going to look at you and say, how serious is this?
Bernie (21:09)
Yeah.
Debra (21:10)
AI is a tool, it's not a replacement. And honestly, you need to ask patients, how do you feel about this? Because a big part of healing is having a positive attitude. A big part of a person getting better is how much they want to get better and how positive they are about getting better and what they believe about getting better. And part of that is giving the patient the right
giving the patient a voice, which is what we want to do, but including them in the decisions that are made. You you could have a round table with a whole bunch of medical professionals that are talking about how they're going to fix something, and politicians and government officials, but if there's no patients really there, you're not fixing a problem.
That's my opinion.
Bernie (21:59)
So.
trying to form an S. Well, no, no, that's fine. In a in a world involved with analytics and metrics. And I think we've kind of touched on that. having a spouse who works in the in the healthcare field actively right now. And you hear about a physician is doing a new
Debra (22:00)
We're jumping all around.
Bernie (22:17)
procedure and the person is totally ecstatic about it. He we can now do this. We haven't been able to do this before. And it seems like there's an obvious implication for the patient because then it's less invasive, this particular procedure. And it's going someplace they couldn't before and they can make more headway for a treatment. That addresses an issue
for the, if you think it is reward dopamine hit to the person, I'm able, I've got a new tool, this tool works really well, it helps people, et cetera. And the goal is to help the patient. Is there, and that's kind of like a metric, right? Because the system is based on process, it's funding, et cetera. Are the analytics and metrics sometimes just skipping past or are there some KPIs?
⁓ key performance indicators that are missing in the overall picture. That, you know, if you're in the bin counting, this will give you a sense of, know, stronger. Having the story helps, but you know, if you have, you know, a thousand patients coming through a hospital in the, or through the province, thousand patients a day or 2000 patients a day, that's a sea of information. How do you distill that?
Can you distill it down to go, we're on target, we're not on target? Is there a satisfaction score?
Bernie (23:42)
My
Debra (23:42)
that
definitely sounds like AI. If you have all that information coming at you and you need to decipher it, that's a tool that you want to use. It's AI. That's what it does. It analyzes data. It does comparisons. I think that would be an easy solution.
Debra (23:57)
I mean...
Bernie (24:00)
I
Debra (24:00)
There's a whole bunch of things that need to change in our healthcare. And one of them is we really need to embrace innovation. Definitely. But remember that it is a tool. It's a guide. It's to help. It's to make diagnosis faster. It's to make treatment plans faster. It's to allow the doctors to spend more time with the patients, which is what patients want, human side of health.
and to make it more efficient. There's a lot of inefficiencies in the healthcare systems, we all know that. I mean, some of them could be cost saving. There was a time where, and still is, but you know, it's getting better, where hospitals couldn't speak to each other because they all were on different backbone systems. And as you know, Epic came along and now Epic is being put into Kingston and to Smith Falls.
Debra (24:33)
I.
Debra (24:52)
And so all these hospitals will have the same system, which means they'll have your records.
Debra (24:57)
That's...
Debra (24:58)
in this little area of the pond, people travel. If I went to visit my brother in Edmonton, something happened to me. They would not have access to my medical files. I think sharing the information as well between provinces is helpful. I'm hopeful that the new government is trying to change those barriers where provinces don't work so isolated and work together to streamline processes.
Debra (25:02)
but we're.
Debra (25:27)
It would be great if the provinces didn't negotiate individually with pharmaceutical companies for product, but did it as a country.
It would give us more ⁓ clout, because you're then a bigger commodity to deal with. pharmaceutical companies are global and they negotiate pricing and they negotiate many, many different things and they're doing it all over the world and so you need to have some strength there. Right now province by province negotiates what products they will approve to be used in the province and the price point.
Bernie (26:02)
So we've talked about patient. Well, no, it's fine. And we talked about the medical staff. We talked about the organization. What about third party entities that provide support? Like, you know, if you need home care, you know, that's a case in point. Or even pharmacies or other entities where there's a medical component, like, you know, CPAP machines. There's another example.
Debra (26:28)
Those are CPAP machines, they're some of those ancillaries that are not paid for by the government. If you're on a government plan, they're not going to pay for a CPAP machine for you. You have to pay for it for yourself. That's an ancillary. It's an extra expense.
Debra (26:43)
sorry.
Debra (26:43)
I missed
the question.
Bernie (26:45)
Well, the question is those other external parties, They're part of the healthcare equation for delivery of services, whether they're paid for by the state, through the insurance company or out of pocket expense. How do they factor into this whole story? Other than, you know, I can take a cab to get to the hospital or to the clinic.
Debra (27:09)
Yeah, so third party, I actually think the third party, as long as it's covered and is regulated. Third parties, you know, I'm sure you're aware that third parties are owned a lot of the clinics that you go to. The doctors get paid by the government. But the clinic itself and the doctors rent space from the clinic and the clinic is owned privately. So, you know, all apple trees are owned privately.
whatever they are, they're all owned privately. And I think there needs to be a little bit more regulation on that and more, you know, more of a watchdog watching the quality of.
The quality of the
Debra (27:48)
the
Debra (27:50)
delivery of services, not the doctor's delivery of the service, but the actual physical location delivery of management of your data, because it's the clinic that will manage your data on behalf of the doctors. So I just think there's a, yeah, I think that's great. I think it's really needed more innovation because Canadians are very innovative. We are a country of many, many small businesses and small business owners tend to be very innovative. They're trying to get as much as they can for, know, as
you try to do as much as you can for as little as, know, little amount of money as you can, right? And so our whole country's made up of that. And that is innovation. Each one of these people have learned something important. And I think third party, third party delivery of certain aspects of healthcare is important.
Bernie (28:35)
Are you finding these third parties are also involved in your picture? Are they engaging with you to provide
Bernie (28:42)
We haven't actually.
Debra (28:43)
So we have not
guess I'd have to redefine it. We are working with companies that provide ancillaries or devices to patients that have medical conditions. But the smaller companies that offer in-home patient care, we haven't explored that area. I'm not saying that we're not in that area. just, that's not where we are today.
Bernie (29:07)
Cool. So I guess that's a future state question. The next, if I were to go there.
AI tools overall, we kind of touched on them.
Debra (29:15)
I have a big supporter of AI tools, but you got to remember what an AI tool is. And I think a lot of people have a very, have a big misunderstanding of what AI is. There's no intelligence in artificial intelligence. They run queries against a database and the answers are only as good as the database they are grabbing the information from. know, yes, they can write, they can learn.
as they go and they'll learn more about the question. Each time you ask it a question, it learns from the question you ask because they give an answer. So they add on to that. And that's maybe they consider that intelligence. But it really at the very basis, it's got to be the database that you use that makes the difference. And I'm going to give you an example. If I had a database, medical database, but it came from Africa.
And I'm trying to do triage in Northern Canada. What do you think my, what do you think the results would be of that triage? It'd be crazy.
Bernie (30:16)
The symptoms won't match or typical symptoms.
Debra (30:19)
⁓
Even if the symptoms do, it's unheard of for someone in, you know, none of it to get dengue fever.
Bernie (30:27)
We would hope. We would hope.
Debra (30:29)
So, you know, I'm just saying that, so it is the most important part of any AI is the data it draws from. There are a lot of private companies that do private AI. So for instance, and I don't know, don't know this at all, but the Ottawa Hospital has its own database of all the patients that have ever come in. And, you know, say every heart attack patient that came in at the Heart Institute, they have a database of the symptoms, the
all the treatment, all the treatment plans, whatever. That is a great database for an AI tool to pull information out when they're trying to, when a cardiologist is trying to assess what's going on with a particular patient, the AI tool would be very beneficial. But at the end of the day, it's the doctor that makes the diagnosis, not AI. It's the doctor that chooses the treatment plan, not AI.
because the doctor's the one with the license.
Bernie (31:26)
At that in the hospital, the Ottawa Hospital is using Epic as its backbone.
Debra (31:31)
I do know that. I know that when they implemented it, there was a lot of resistance, but that's with anything. You know, when you get something new, there's always a lot of resistance. I'm not going to use that.
Bernie (31:40)
Actually, came across a total segue. I came across an Instagram post and the person's talking about change. And he was talking about cultural change and he says, there's a window. How much change can you introduce and not have blowback coming back from the group? He's talking on a grander scale. He's talking national, right? So yeah, yes, I guess that was outside the window and everybody's kind of pulling back.
Bernie (32:03)
I'm
gonna get it.
Debra (32:04)
think it's, know, people resist change. It's, it's change is hard for people. They don't know how they're going to fit in. They don't know how they're going to use it. They don't know what's going to happen to them. Is it going to eliminate my job? This new, you know, so there is a lot of change and then is this going to add more work to what I already have? There's a lot of resistance. you know, but the bigger picture of the common backbone to all the hospitals is so great for the patients.
Debra (32:26)
E.
It's
Debra (32:33)
great for the doctors as well because they have the opportunity to collaborate more.
Bernie (32:37)
So that'd be a key factor. Then I'm going to flip it back over to the patient side of the fence now, or even the family of the patient or caregivers of the patient. Because when you're going through a medical situation, an adverse one, know, that just like, you know, whether it's a motor vehicle accident or your body just goes, no, that's it. We're having a bad moment now. That's a change. And so how do you...
What do you recommend I should ask for the patient or the caregivers to adapt to that change that would make it easier for them?
Debra (33:16)
make it easier for them. If it is a diagnosed change or you you're in a car accident, someone's in a car accident, my second case, I was in a car accident but to say that the trauma that I had to my heart caused heart damage then my family, because I would not be in them, on their own be an advocate for me and find out as much as they can about the condition and all the information about it because I mean
Debra (33:17)
Mm-hmm.
Shit.
and
Mm, mm.
Debra (33:47)
There's a saying somewhere that says something about knowledge is power. To be an advocate for your own health is the number one thing that any patient can do. And if you can't do for yourself, then your family should be doing it for you to find out as much as they can about all the different treatments, about all the different conditions. And you have lots of tools, and the tools will be a pharmacist.
Bernie (33:51)
Yeah.
Debra (34:15)
They are chemists. That's what they are basically. And if you want to know that the doc, they're going to, they're dying, but this is what the diagnosis is. You can talk to a pharmacist that you have better, easier access to a pharmacist than you would to have a cardiologist. No, they're not going to have all the answers, but they will know if two different drugs will interact with each other or whether they won't because they're chemists. And so, you you want to use all the tools you can and then find out if you've got this condition, if you're going to be
Debra (34:43)
Okay.
Debra (34:44)
building your knowledge base, find out if there's any associations. So there's all kinds of groups and patient associations. And there's some amazing patient associations that provide a lot of information and will give you access to other patients to talk to. Where you can get a lot of resources and that would be for the individual or for caregivers of the individual. Knowledge is power.
Bernie (35:07)
Excellent. I guess you kind of bring us into the home stretch here because time flies. Patients Mirror. What are you looking for right now? Are looking for more patients? Are you looking for more collaborations with the healthcare facilities, political side of the fence? Are you looking for integrations with pharma? Are you looking for NGOs, non-for-profit groups that are out there supporting patients?
Bernie (35:15)
Yes.
Bernie (35:36)
who or what would be your of your primary for the next couple of years.
Bernie (35:40)
and I'm out.
Debra (35:41)
It's
okay. It's a combination of all of it because you can't do they all work together you cannot You cannot work with a patient without working with a patient group I our goal is to support the patient group because the patient group is supporting the patient not just one but all of them and you can't work with the patient group without knowing what kind of doing your research and understanding what is happening with that patient group so like
cancer, what are the cancer drugs, who are the pharmaceutical companies, because you've got to tie it all together. And then, you know, there are are foundations and there's find out foundations out there that support a lot of these different therapeutic areas. So it's a matter of and then of course there's the government piece, the policy making piece. I was at an event
last week and it was called Inside Job and it was put on by the GI Society Gastrointestinal Society. I love the name of it, Inside Job. And I got to speak to the former DG or the Minister of Health and we were just talking about all the things that he was talking about. You know, we are having a what-if moment if you could have a magic wand and change something and they were asking these
pharma leaders and health care professionals. If you had a magic wand in this particular space, which is the GI, what would you do? And they were coming up with all the things. And then I spoke with the former minister and he said, well, it all sounds great, but you'll need so many dollars. And people don't realize that the health care minister ⁓ has to deal with the finance minister.
Debra (37:22)
of
Debra (37:27)
Because the finance minister is going to say, what are you doing with the money I'm giving? And it's not something you're going to do so you get results 20 years down the road. What are you doing today with my money I'm giving you? So there's a bigger picture playing out. And some of the changes that we may want to make is leaving room for the 20 years down the road.
Bernie (37:46)
So Debra, if someone wants to reach out to you and get ahold of you.
Debra (37:50)
Mmm!
Debra (37:51)
We don't want them to call me. No, just kidding. Absolutely. ⁓
Bernie (37:54)
This
person, I don't know this person.
Debra (37:56)
Send us an email. Send us an email or find us on social media. I'm always on LinkedIn, but yeah, send me an email. I'd be more than happy to somehow help.
Bernie (38:08)
What's the email address?
Debra (38:09)
So it's Debra at PatientsMirror.com. It is PatientsMirror.com.
Bernie (38:17)
not patience as in being patient, but as being the patient, not being in that state of mind.
Bernie (38:19)
patient death.
Debra (38:24)
Yes, Patience Mirror, yes. And you know, the reason we came up with the name Patience Mirror, because everybody who looks in a mirror will someday be a patient.
Bernie (38:35)
So true. I want to say thank you to Debra Workman for being our guest today. I'm my co-host, Wayne Pratt, and you the Knack for Business listeners. So if you haven't gathered by now, Debra helps bring the emotional and informational gap and tries to help reduce it or improve it in regards to healthcare, right? So it's not only just the patients, it's the caregivers, professionals, the entire ecosystem that brings it forward.
The idea is to take the pain that's been in play and find healing and connection through power of storytelling. So reach out to Debra if you have a story to tell or you want to go, hey, I need more support or need to understand more what's going on.