Fractional sales leader Darren Legault shows B2B owners how to fix stagnant sales, build a real process, and create revenue that doesn't depend on luck.
GROWTH PILLAR: Sales & Revenue
WHO THIS IS FOR:
WHAT YOU'LL GAIN: A clear picture of why sales stall — and a practical framework to fix it. Real tools, real process, no fluff.
Most business owners don't have a sales problem. They have a systems problem.
Darren Legault has spent over 25 years in the trenches of B2B sales — starting on 100% commission, knocking on doors in minus 40 weather. Today he works with founders and CEOs of small to medium businesses who are stuck at a plateau and don't know why.
In this episode of Knack 4 Business, Darren breaks it all down.
What's blocking your growth: Most SMB owners wear every hat. They've made some sales. Then things go flat. Darren sees three gaps almost every time — no sales playbook, no CRM, and a team with zero coaching or structure.
The sales playbook explained: A playbook isn't a binder that collects dust. It's a living document. It covers your ICP (ideal customer profile), your value proposition, your sales methodology, and your process. It's what gives a new hire a roadmap from day one.
The CRM conversation: About 50% of businesses still don't use one. A CRM is your command center. It tracks your pipeline, your follow-ups, your win rates, your deal sizes. Without it, leads fall into a black hole — and Darren has seen exactly that happen with a real client whose marketing was working perfectly but sales were still flat.
CPR — Conversion, Penetration, Retention: New customers matter. But your existing accounts are a goldmine. Darren's CPR model keeps you focused on all three levers at once.
Onboarding done right: It starts before day one. Darren calls it pre-boarding. A 30-day structured plan, clear expectations, and ongoing coaching — not sink or swim.
Compensation plans: They drive behaviour. Full stop. If your reps aren't doing what you want, check what you're paying them to do.
Connect with Darren Legault:
Connect with Darren on LinkedIn
Visit Darren's Sales Xceleration profile
📧 dlegault@salesxceleration.com
📞 613-858-1838
Hosted by: Bernie Franzgrote | Wayne Pratt
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speaker-0 (00:05)
Question to ask the audience, are your sales flat or unpredictable? And you're not sure why?
And that's what Darren will dig into on this episode. He'll talk about how to uncover what's really blocking growth, build the right sales process and create a structure that drives consistent, predictable revenue. Our guest today is Darren Legault. He's a veteran sales leader with more than 25 years of experience guiding teams across Canada in industries ranging from physical security to distribution and manufacturing. Today, he works with business owners, founders and CEOs of small to medium sized businesses.
who are facing flat or declining sales. Darren digs into the real reasons growth has stalled, then builds the sales structure and strategy needed to turn results around. He started his career knocking on doors on straight commission, and even gave up boxing so he wouldn't show up at the client meetings with black guys, swapping the ring for the golf course instead. Smart move. Darren, welcome. It's a pleasure to have you here. you know, what's your favorite quarter saying,
speaker-2 (01:10)
Thank you, Bernie, and thank you Wayne for having me. It's great to be here.
speaker-1 (01:14)
⁓
speaker-2 (01:15)
I learned early on, it's a marathon, not a sprint. That's the way I kind of guide myself and I've coached a lot of people on the sales side. And when people get a little bit negative or discouraged, it's something that I always say, it's a marathon, not a sprint.
speaker-0 (01:34)
And what's your tagline for your business?
speaker-2 (01:36)
With sales acceleration, it's fractional sales leadership, full-time results.
speaker-0 (01:42)
Very good. So you your career in knocking on doors, 100 % commission. obviously, obviously that was a, that's a tour de force. What were you selling?
speaker-2 (01:53)
Yeah, I started my career selling security systems door to door, 100 % commission. Much to the surprise of my dad after university, he says, you went to university, got a college degree, and now you're peddling things door to door. He wasn't that impressed, but it was a tremendous, tremendous training ground. learned a ton. Getting doors slammed in your face, rejection, working out in
speaker-1 (01:58)
⁓
⁓
speaker-2 (02:21)
you know, minus 40 to plus 40 degrees, a degree of weather, uncomfortable situations. And you just learn grit and perseverance. And I didn't have much success at first, to be honest. And I was, I was ready to quit on a number of occasions, but I had my manager come out with me and he provided some tips, a little bit of coaching. Slowly, but surely I started booking more appointments and getting more sales. And I actually just started loving it.
speaker-1 (02:25)
on
and
And then the
speaker-2 (02:51)
And I know that sounds weird when you talk about door-to-door sales, but I believed in the product that I was selling. First and foremost, I think that's really important. And I was selling security systems, so I was providing a solution that can potentially save someone's life or property. And like I said, it was just a really, really good training ground for me to start my sales career. it...
speaker-1 (03:07)
and
Hey.
speaker-2 (03:16)
Like I said, it provided a lot of lessons and I learned a ton from it.
speaker-0 (03:20)
So was boxing happening at the same time too or?
speaker-2 (03:23)
Yes. Yeah. I started boxing well over 30 years ago when I was a kid and mainly for the training. I didn't do a heck of a lot of competition, but I did a lot of sparring and as a result, you get the odd black eye and busted lip and you just couldn't show up to two customers locations looking like that. Right. So I decided to give it up. You got to be presentable. didn't want to show up.
speaker-1 (03:38)
And
⁓
speaker-2 (03:51)
looking like I went a few rounds of Mike Tyson.
speaker-0 (03:55)
You could have said this was what happened to the last guy who said no.
speaker-2 (03:58)
Yeah, that would have been a good way to respond to objections for sure. ⁓ with any sport, whether it's boxing, hockey or anything else, it really shows you that in order to win, in order to succeed, you have to follow a process. You have to build a foundation, follow a process. And that's how I kind of got into my sales career by following that and ⁓ following the program.
speaker-1 (04:04)
And the thing with
speaker-2 (04:26)
that got to me where I am today.
speaker-0 (04:28)
What have you found from your coaching is one of the common reasons sales, small business hits a plateau.
speaker-2 (04:36)
Well, every business is different. Every business has different needs, but there are a few things that I see that are common. First and foremost, business owners, small to medium size, they typically wear all the hats, They're involved in every aspect of the business and they're stretched thin. don't have time for much.
speaker-1 (04:38)
And,
and
speaker-2 (04:59)
You know, and they're very good at their product and service. They made some sales along the way and they think, okay, well that's how you do it.
speaker-1 (05:02)
and the
And then.
speaker-2 (05:08)
they hit a plateau, right? And the reason why is because there's certain things that are missing. There's gaps that exist within their sales organization. So what I see very often is a sales team that does not get much in the way of guidance or support or coaching because the owner just doesn't have the time or desire or even the skills to do that.
speaker-1 (05:21)
⁓ the
speaker-2 (05:35)
Right. So they have a sales team that doesn't get much guidance or support. They develop bad habits. They're unfortunately missing quotas. And then that leads to a lot of turnover. And so that's one of the main reasons why businesses don't get a plateau. They don't have a sales playbook or a sales process, which you'll hear me a lot today talk about. I look at a sales playbook as a kind of a roadmap.
for the business and the sales organization. And if you don't have that, then what you have is you have a sales team going in all kinds of different directions. So if you have a team of four or five, you have four different messages, you've got four or five different ways of handling a lead, how to talk to customers and prospects, and that's not really a good ingredient for success. So a lack of a playbook is another thing that I see quite often.
And surprisingly, a lot ⁓ of businesses still don't use technology like a CRM, which is very surprising. And if they do use a CRM, they're not using it efficiently or the way they should be. And that, you know, not having one as an owner, you don't have visibility across your business and sales. You don't know what your pipeline looks like. Very difficult to forecast when not knowing, you know, what's going on with pipeline and funnels.
speaker-1 (06:41)
and
speaker-2 (06:56)
and your sales reps aren't as efficient when you don't have that technology. So those are the usual things that I see when I talk to businesses and I see that they're in a position where their sales are stagnant.
speaker-0 (07:10)
Darren, I find people are all over the map in their knowledge of information and jargon. I certainly know what it is, but why don't you tell me what a CRM is?
speaker-2 (07:20)
A CRM is a customer relationship management platform. I refer to a CRM as your command center for your business. So, you people may have heard of software like Salesforce, HubSpot, PipeDrive. Those are the probably the main ones that you've heard out there. And really it's a, I look at it as a one-stop shop where you can have everything put into your CRM. So if you're a sales rep, you can put your calendar.
You've got all your accounts, all your leads, emails, calendar.
speaker-1 (07:54)
and then.
speaker-2 (07:55)
based on all that information, revenue, pipeline, funnels, and that sort of thing, you can put together dashboards and reports. So as a manager or an owner, you can go into the CRM and get a very, very quick snapshot of what is happening with the business in terms of sales, what the funnel looks like, how are we doing, what do our win rates look like, what are the average deal sizes? So some very...
speaker-1 (08:10)
with
speaker-2 (08:19)
good information with some key metrics that are very, very important. And like I mentioned before, you can use this information to forecast, make investments in the future. So very, important that you use a CRM. And like I mentioned before, the data, if we take a look at it, it's about 50 % of businesses still don't use a CRM.
speaker-1 (08:28)
and ⁓
speaker-0 (08:39)
So sales, usually when someone says sales, think of a retail store and you're walking in, there's a clerk coming up. Obviously that's not the same thing as walking into a dealership. And it's not the same thing from going to, I need to buy a 2000 feet of lumber or 2000 feet of steel. How do you, do you service all those different elements or do you just particularly work on B2B side of the fence?
speaker-2 (09:04)
Yeah, the vast majority of my customers are B2B. Typically, they're businesses who have been around for a little bit. They've built up a pretty successful business, but they've hit a plateau and they're struggling to scale. So that's where most of my clients lie. I also work with early stage startups as well. I meet a lot of founders who need help, so I can help them. But the majority of my clients are
speaker-1 (09:09)
tip.
and
speaker-2 (09:33)
B2B typically over $4 million per year in annual revenue up to about 50. In terms of industry, I'm industry agnostic. So I work across all kinds of different industries, even though most of my experience has been in physical security and distribution. I've got cybersecurity, e-learning, construction, SaaS. So it runs the gamut of different industries.
speaker-1 (09:38)
and
speaker-0 (09:55)
There's a term I hear a lot that I don't think is understood a lot called onboarding. Can you tell me what you think it is and if it, when it fails or when it succeeds?
speaker-2 (10:06)
Onboarding is a topic that's near and dear to my heart. I'm telling you, most businesses fail at this. So onboarding really means how you introduce a new hire into your organization.
speaker-1 (10:08)
it's
And.
speaker-2 (10:24)
The unfortunate reality
is most businesses look at onboarding as a few days of product training, get your computer going, get your log-ons and then okay, go out and sell. And unfortunately, that doesn't set up your new hire for success. It's like a sink or swim type of environment. So for me, onboarding,
To me, it starts before the person's first day. I call it pre-boarding. So a company should send out a welcome package to the new hire, at least a week prior. Welcome to the organization, providing them a company overview, get their technology set up, key contacts, maybe even set them up with a mentor. A very well-structured
speaker-1 (11:10)
and then have a
speaker-2 (11:12)
at least 30 day onboarding program where the new hire knows exactly what you're doing each and every single day of the week. Because they're hesitant, they're nervous or some anxiety. So having a schedule and agenda, knowing exactly what you're going to be doing, I think really helps the new hire. And it also helps all the different people within the company. The worst thing that can happen, and it's happened to me is you show up on your first day and...
speaker-1 (11:18)
⁓ week. ⁓
speaker-2 (11:38)
person and welcome you doesn't even know you're supposed to be starting, right? That's not the best way to handle that. So onboarding should be well structured, well planned. I totally understand that emergencies pop up. you you take into account those types of things, but onboarding ⁓ should be well structured, planned, and it doesn't end.
speaker-1 (11:41)
But
and
speaker-2 (12:03)
It doesn't end after a week or 30 days. It's ongoing. You need to provide your new hire, consistent coaching and guidance.
speaker-1 (12:11)
And.
speaker-2 (12:12)
Probably one of the most important things is setting expectations.
speaker-1 (12:17)
⁓
speaker-2 (12:18)
expectations should be communicated and extremely clear each and every day. So if I have a new hire, I tell them, this is what's expected of you this week. At the end of the week, we reconvene and we review and talk about any concerns or challenges that they have and make sure that we take care of it right away. So without a good onboarding program, you risk developing those poor habits that I mentioned.
speaker-1 (12:28)
And then.
⁓
speaker-2 (12:43)
higher
turnover and that can lead to costly hiring mistakes.
speaker-0 (12:48)
So what are three good traits or good characteristics and what are three bad characteristics for a salesperson? So three good things, three bad things. Three things to do, three things not to do.
speaker-2 (13:02)
⁓ Are you talking about when they first start burning?
speaker-0 (13:06)
Yeah, well, well,
even if you're a business and all of sudden you've hit that plateau, right? And you must, you might be doing maybe two, maybe three of the good things, but you're doing some bad things. right? That, yeah, know, the habits, yeah. Whatever, know, are there any that kind of stand out?
speaker-2 (13:19)
or
Well, in terms of good habits or good things that I've seen in my career, think for sales reps, number one is just being naturally curious. It's something that's, you know, something that a lot of good sales reps have as a skillset because they're the ones that are just not just going out and interviewing a prospect or a customer. They're actually, they actually want to know exactly what's going on in the business. They're, they're curious about industry insights, competition.
They know their product inside and out. So being naturally curious is something that is extremely important.
speaker-1 (14:00)
...
speaker-2 (14:04)
Someone who is good at developing relationships, because most of your customers are going to be customers over a long term, right? You're not just going to be selling and then never seeing them again. So developing that relationship over time is key because you want to not only sell them once, but you want to cross sell, upsell, and you want to make sure that you can get some referral business out of them as well. So having a really good relationship.
speaker-1 (14:08)
and
And then, then, and
speaker-2 (14:32)
with somebody is key. I think persistence, like I mentioned earlier, when I first started, not giving up at the first few rejections or objections, just being persistent, being able to follow up is something that is really, really important. in terms of what not to do, I think a lot of salespeople talk too much. So you need to
speaker-1 (14:48)
that
speaker-2 (14:57)
Listen. I always say listen, listen and listen more.
speaker-1 (14:57)
question.
⁓
speaker-2 (15:02)
you know, stop talking. I've
seen it too often where reps have done a really, really good presentation. They just over sell and over speak and it just doesn't work out very well. the more that you can get your customer to discuss and talk, then you're on the right track. That means you're engaging, you're asking.
speaker-1 (15:10)
and
⁓
⁓
speaker-2 (15:28)
really good follow-up questions. And I think a rep superpower is probably being able to ask open ended questions. I make that mistake sometimes too. You know, at the end of a conversation, I'll say, so do you have any questions? you have any concerns? Ask an open ended question. I would love feedback on what we discussed. I would love feedback on this particular feature that we talked about. Who in your organization do you think can
speaker-1 (15:43)
⁓
Right?
speaker-2 (15:55)
take advantage of this particular feature of our product. open ended questions.
Yeah, listen, don't talk too much. These are all things that the sales reps can, can do to make sure that they, ⁓ know, they, win more deals.
speaker-0 (16:10)
Darren, you've alluded to it, but you didn't actually state it. If that's an open-end question, what's a closed-end question?
speaker-2 (16:17)
Close in on question and it will give you a yes or no answer. So like I said before, do you have any questions, Wayne? No, or yeah, or you're right. You're kind of stuck there, right? So like I mentioned before, that would be a rep superpower, someone who is naturally curious and someone who can ask open ended questions and really get a good discussion with your prospect or customer.
speaker-1 (16:25)
Right? And then.
and
speaker-0 (16:44)
You've been at this a while. Do you find men and women sell and process differently? And do you find you train differently based on not on gender, but on styles that genders tend to be influenced by?
speaker-1 (17:01)
⁓ I think
speaker-2 (17:02)
I
think it really depends on the industry. When I was in the physical security, it was a male dominated business. Not a lot of females or women, I should say, were involved. And whenever I did have a woman salesperson, they did very well. They did very well. They have a very nice personality approach.
speaker-1 (17:05)
Three. ⁓
business.
⁓ women.
speaker-2 (17:26)
tend to let them in on a cold call a little bit more than ⁓
speaker-1 (17:29)
than a man.
speaker-2 (17:30)
So there are certainly some differences there. Now, another business that I used to be in, in the pharmaceutical business, that was a little bit different. A lot of women are in the pharmaceutical business. And so a little bit different there.
speaker-1 (17:33)
Right.
And
speaker-2 (17:50)
Sometimes it worked against them because maybe the doctor's wife was a receptionist and they didn't like the fact that it was an attractive woman coming to see them. I had success in both those types of roles. And I think at the end of the day, if you provide value to your customer, it really doesn't matter if you're a woman, and if you're a little bit older, younger, if you can go in and
speaker-1 (18:02)
I had
Man.
speaker-2 (18:18)
and talk to your prospect or customer and they see you as a value added resource, you're going to succeed. I've seen it too often where I'll be on the road with a rep, doesn't matter if it's a woman or a man and I'll say, okay, what's the strategy for today's call? And they'll say, we're just going in and checking in to say hi and see how things are going. And that's not really ⁓ a good strategy. want to make sure that you're providing value because
speaker-1 (18:23)
⁓ Because if.
and
speaker-2 (18:47)
The competition is calling on those customers. They're aggressive. They're offering discounts and promotions. If your customer doesn't see you as someone who can come in and provide value, whether it's industry insights or education on product or any other type of solution, then they may decide to go elsewhere. So it's very, very important whether it doesn't really matter where you are at your sales career.
speaker-1 (18:51)
and
And if...
speaker-2 (19:11)
Make sure you go out and you provide value to your customers and your prospects.
speaker-0 (19:15)
It's interesting. You mentioned something about providing insights and past experience. Once a RFP has been won to a larger ⁓ establishment, the salespeople would be upselling, I guess would be the best way to say it because here's the list of products you want to typically buy. You've won the RFP.
but they would come in and they would do like you just said, here's a new product, here's how to use the product if you're running into issues.
But if you're flipping it over and you're going, let's say it's not an RFP and it's an open purchase environment, whether it's a small, medium business as opposed to an enterprise, how do you find the clients that are gonna be potentially client? mean, a restaurant, your food, you can figure it out, right? If someone's opening up a restaurant or supplies, kitchen supplies, et cetera. But if I'm...
I'm running a store and it's cleaning products or it's lighting products or it's a telco or I need an alarm system. Did you know you need an alarm system because you know people are going to, you know, yeah, yeah. And then go on and goes the story. How do you know what to find those people? How do you, is it all cold calling? Is it networking? What drives that boat?
speaker-2 (20:34)
Well, the beauty of cold calling now is you have a lot more information at your disposal versus when I was doing it 20, 25 years ago. Like when I was doing it, I was blind. I had no idea who the person was that I was knocking on, know, which door I was knocking on, what their title was, what their role was. Now you can go on LinkedIn and find out who the procurement person is.
speaker-1 (20:57)
then and
speaker-2 (21:01)
Then you get to the reception and say, hey, ⁓ my name is Darren from ABC Company. I'd to speak with Bernie today. So the information that you have just on your phone is so valuable. So there's a lot more information out there that you have. But also from a cold outreach perspective, it's got to be multi-channel. It's not just going out and physically knocking on doors or calling people on the phone.
speaker-1 (21:07)
⁓
have.
speaker-2 (21:29)
There's social media, there's different types of outreach on LinkedIn. There's something that I think I probably should have done more of and that's networking. Going to different networking events when I was younger, I didn't do much of that. Nowadays, I think I'm seeing a lot more account executives at different in-person networking events, online coffee chats, virtual coffees.
speaker-1 (21:35)
on
speaker-2 (21:57)
making sure that you're meeting different referral partners out there. So if you're selling real estate, for example, you should have a referral partner that's an accountant, an insurance person, a lawyer, basically people who playing in that same sandbox, right? Being members of different associations like the Chamber of Commerce, BNI, different peer groups, I think is really key.
speaker-1 (22:05)
Yeah.
Be
⁓
speaker-2 (22:25)
Finding those customers, I think, takes a multi-channel type of approach versus the way we used to do things 25 years ago.
speaker-1 (22:29)
now
speaker-0 (22:34)
Darren, you get a referred lead and you walk in and meet the people. What's the first two questions you're trying to diagnose even before you're in the deep end?
speaker-1 (22:38)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-2 (22:45)
The first question I always asked was, why am I here?
What brings me here today?
speaker-1 (22:50)
and
speaker-2 (22:51)
that basically leads the conversation and the discussion. And based on their answers, I figure out what their pain points are and figure out if I have a solution for them. Sometimes you don't have the solution, right? Sometimes it's not a good qualified lead. It could be something that is out of your space. So yeah, that's the first question I always ask. What brings me here? Why am I here?
speaker-1 (22:58)
and then
and
⁓
⁓ And then, then.
speaker-2 (23:20)
follow that up with a really good discussion, find out their pain points.
speaker-1 (23:26)
And then. ⁓
speaker-2 (23:27)
based on their pain points, you can develop a solution that can help them with their problems.
speaker-0 (23:34)
So I haven't been out the door or networking, which is good because people get to know you and you get to know them, you understand the wants and needs.
Is there a tool or series of tools in behind that tell you cast your net over there? That's a Uber rich environment. For example, if you're out here in the Canada area and probably some areas in Manatee, all of a sudden you see a whole bunch of new houses going up, right? Builders putting it up. And if you're supplying the builder with stuff, you might want to knock on the door saying, hi, I've got X. Or once people move in, I've got an alarm system. Howdy.
speaker-1 (24:10)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (24:11)
How do you help find where you cast the net for the most target rich environment for the salesperson? I know that sounds really not a pretty way to say it, but how do you find your best fit for your customer and the customer finds you because you know what they're going to have for a problem?
speaker-1 (24:27)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-2 (24:28)
Well, that I think requires the heavy lifting when you're developing your sales playbook. So the mistake that a lot of businesses make is that they cast that net very wide. They've got a spray and pray approach. In fact, I was at a networking event last night where I met a founder of ⁓ a new startup and interesting product.
And I asked, ⁓ okay, so what is your ICP? What's your ideal customer profile? And they couldn't really articulate it. They had a really hard time answering that question. And I think that's really the first thing any business has to do. Like you have to figure out what your ICP is and you may have multiple ICPs, figure out what your main ⁓ ideal client profile is, what the buyer persona is.
what your value proposition is. So that's part of our sales playbook. Our sales playbook is divided into three different segments. So you have sales strategy, sales methodology and sales process. And sales strategy, that's where you map out your ICP and your value prop. What differences do you from the competition, buyer personas, like I mentioned before. And once you get that,
that will enable you to figure out where those customers are from a cold outreach perspective, marketing and that sort of thing.
speaker-1 (25:48)
⁓
speaker-2 (25:54)
But like I mentioned before, the mistake is, okay, this is what I sell. I'm going to go try to sell to everyone. And that doesn't work. You really need to narrow it down and figure out who's best kind of market you can promote to.
speaker-1 (26:00)
And
the and
then and then and then but then you then
speaker-2 (26:12)
go that way. And once you have that
you build off of that, right? A sales playbook, I look at as an ongoing working document. So your ICP could change. You can decide to to venture in a different market. A new competitor can venture into the new market. So you'll have to make some revisions to the playbook. The worst thing is to have a playbook and it sits on a desk somewhere collecting dust. You wanna make sure that it's always evolving.
speaker-1 (26:35)
I
I
speaker-2 (26:44)
people
are always referring back to it. And then when you start making your first new hires from the sales team, during their onboarding, they can refer to the playbook, they hit the ground.
speaker-1 (26:54)
running. ⁓
speaker-2 (26:56)
The
onboarding process takes a little bit less time when you have a playbook. And you can get some really, really good wins when you have all that information in one spot.
speaker-0 (27:05)
Once I worked in a couple of different size firms and once I find they have both the sales department and a marketing department, it's great because they're natural enemies. The marketing department believes the salesmen are all a bunch of lazy dogs and the marketing and the salesmen believe the marketers couldn't design a doodle on a bathroom wall. What's your take on integrating marketing and selling?
speaker-2 (27:29)
It's so crucial to have that. If you have a siloed approach, it's not going to work. Sales and marketing have to work together.
speaker-1 (27:38)
⁓ to
speaker-2 (27:39)
to develop that go-to-market strategy and get to your end goal. Like I mentioned with the playbook, when I put together sales playbooks and I start talking with ICP and value proposition and what your story is, I work with marketing if they have a marketing person or if they have a fractional marketing person, work with them to develop that because marketing is part of sales and sales is part of marketing. And I'll give you a...
speaker-1 (27:57)
all work.
speaker-2 (28:05)
an example of a client that I worked with, which falls right into this conversation. A business owner of a security company was looking to get more leads into the business. Sales were a little flat, so he wanted to get more leads. So he hired a marketing agency, came in and updated the website, did Google Ads, SEO, did all that sort of thing.
speaker-1 (28:12)
This is
And they can
And then,
speaker-2 (28:31)
After a little while, the owner became very, very frustrated because those leads weren't converting into sales.
speaker-1 (28:39)
and
speaker-2 (28:41)
Very frustrated, was blaming marketing. You're not doing your job. I got connected with him and probably 10 to 15 minutes of my first discovery call, I can see exactly what was going on. They didn't have a sales process. They didn't have a sales playbook. What happened was whenever the company received a lead, whether it be a website, a phone, everything was funneled through the receptionist and the receptionist would
speaker-1 (28:44)
And then within.
speaker-2 (29:08)
assign leads to different sales reps with no rhyme or reason. And then once the sales rep received the lead, there was no process in terms of follow-up. They didn't have a CRM. So all these leads were falling into this black hole. So what I did was I went in and I said, look, it's not marketing's fault. Marketing has done their job. They're getting you leads. You're just not, you're not set up to properly
have them convert from a lead to a sale. So we put in a CRM for them. We put in a sales infrastructure, which included the playbook and the process that I've been talking about. And working with that marketing ⁓ agent. So I work with them to develop the ICP and the value proposition. Everyone working together so that everyone knows exactly what the end result should be. And then after just a few months, their win rates went up.
speaker-1 (29:47)
and
speaker-2 (30:02)
their average deal size went up. Sales grew by about 15 to, between 15 and 18 % in the first few months and the owner was extremely satisfied. So just a very quick example and something that I see all the time where sales and marketing are not being working together and it can cause some unfortunate and poor results.
speaker-1 (30:22)
They're not.
speaker-0 (30:28)
When people are engaged in sales, sometimes like, hi, here, buy my pony. okay. And you buy the pony or whatever the case might be. Is it one and done? You just turn on light switch or is it some sales you had a map out? Okay, we're interested.
now you need to build up the specs or, you know, garner more information. Do you want it to, you want extended warranty? You can get that in the car dealerships a lot, but I've been in a circumstance where we getting a piece of hardware and it was going out to RFP and the guy says, listen, it was worth about 120,000 something, you know, on the plant. And he says for another 5k or 10k,
we'll add on extended warranty. then basically what was happening is they'd beef up the parts so that it have a longer lifespan, right? So it wouldn't fail. So the guy was honest about what was going on as opposed to here's another 5K, can pay us and we'll come out and service it or we'll make sure it's beefier and last longer. So that whole approach, if you're dealing with an RFP, is that something that it's one...
Obviously in an RFP process, it's never one and done. You have to answer the RFP. But two, when you have something that is, I want to buy the product, I'm doing comparison. How do you handle that process? How do you track it from the business side? And then how do you handle it as a salesperson?
speaker-2 (31:55)
Well, I mean, it depends on what you're selling and the length of the sales cycle. ⁓ And also, when talking about, you know, warranties and that sort of thing, that's typically embedded in a lot of compensation plans. that's one area that I find. Compensation plans are often misaligned with businesses.
speaker-1 (32:00)
and
speaker-2 (32:17)
They don't match the financial objectives of the company and very often they don't incentivize the right behaviors. So if you're looking at a situation where you're getting oversold or extended warranties and that sort of thing, like I look back at some of my comp plans, that's basically how it worked. Like I would get more of a bonus if I sold an extended warranty for an alarm system and a guard service. so those sales reps,
speaker-1 (32:41)
.
speaker-2 (32:45)
will sell to their compensation plan all the time. So as a business, you need to make sure that the comp plan matches your financial objectives and the overall objectives of the organization.
speaker-1 (32:59)
and in terms
speaker-2 (33:01)
In
of following that process, it's key to have that sales process embedded in somewhere, whether it's in your playbook or your CRM. So you've got your lead, whether it's a cool lead or a lead that's inbound, you qualify that lead, you do a discovery call, presentation demo, you put in the proposal.
speaker-1 (33:21)
and then put in and then
speaker-2 (33:26)
You you won the proposal or not. There may be some negotiation involved. The key here is follow-up. That's where a lot of sales are missed is that there's just no follow-up because there's no system that they to remind and tag the type of lead for follow-ups.
speaker-1 (33:31)
And then, right.
to ⁓ that typical event. So.
speaker-2 (33:49)
That is just so important. So very, very important for any organization to have some sort of system. CRM is probably the best one just to make sure that the sales process is embedded in there. And that way the reps can follow that process along, especially on those longer sales cycles. I have a client who's in cybersecurity and their sales cycle is about 12 to 14 months, which is quite long because there's a lot of education at the front end.
If you're selling widgets and your sales process is three months, then it's a little bit different, right? But it really depends on the industry, how long your sales cycle is, making sure that you have that technology within the business so that you can ⁓ keep track of everything.
speaker-1 (34:28)
and
speaker-0 (34:35)
Is consumables, it's one thing to buy, obviously, hi, buy my pony. Now, if I'm also selling you the hay or the barn, the stable of the animal, that's kind of an upsell. Is that also kind of the complete package? it the art of upselling or is it just, hi, here's the pony and you're off to the races? Or I know it can be client-driven, but if the client buys a pony,
They live in suburbia. ⁓ might not fit so well.
speaker-1 (35:07)
Alright.
speaker-2 (35:09)
I call it CPR, conversion penetration retention. So what I mean by that is you want to make sure that you have a high conversion rate on new business, but that existing customer race that you have is an absolute goldmine. So penetration is so, so important. You want to make sure that you can penetrate your existing accounts to upsell, cross-sell.
Which brings me back to what I said before, making sure that you're providing value every single time that you're visiting.
speaker-1 (35:38)
them and
speaker-2 (35:39)
penetrating that customer will lead to a stickier customer.
speaker-1 (35:42)
⁓
speaker-2 (35:44)
I worked for a company before where the vast majority of their accounts, probably about 70%, was $2,000 and less.
speaker-1 (35:52)
⁓
speaker-2 (35:54)
That is a high
churn rate when you have customers only paying you $2,000 a year. So you want to make sure that you have a customer base that's paying more and seeing that value and it means it's a stickier customer. So having that conversion penetration retention kind of model, I think every business should be looking at that. sure, maybe you have
speaker-1 (36:22)
of.
speaker-2 (36:22)
a key product that most people buy, but then you need to take a look at some of the other options that are available if needed. So making sure that you have a stickier customer, they're paying you a little bit more per year, per month, and providing that value, making sure that you're continually communicating with your customers. That's another thing that a lot of businesses make the mistake. They sell to their customer, but you don't hear from your
speaker-1 (36:50)
You're
right, you're right.
speaker-2 (36:52)
your customer or the person that you bought it from.
think it's very, very important that you continue to communicate, whether through sales reps, newsletters, communication, and providing that value. Because if you don't, like I mentioned before, the competition is out there calling on those customers.
speaker-0 (37:08)
Darren, you've been around this block a while and you talked about 100 % commission and then there's people, everything is a salary and it levels out and then there's hybrid, which is some kind of a mix of both. Do you have strong opinions about what model works best in your mind?
speaker-1 (37:25)
I am.
speaker-2 (37:25)
Yeah, and
the first thing that you need to look at if you're a business owner looking at making a hire with your compensation plan is what type of business you're in. If it's B2C and it's highly transactional, then a 100 % commission plan can work. There's no question. But it does come with some drawbacks. First and foremost, it's high turnover, very difficult to find top talent.
speaker-1 (37:50)
that.
speaker-2 (37:51)
100 % commission.
Recruiters that I speak with, they all tell me that it takes time, so you have to be patient. And some recruiters may not even take on that type of engagement. It's very difficult to find. So if you're B2C transactional, it can work. However, if you're B2B and your sales process is a little bit more consultative, I would highly recommend against a 100 % only commission plan. You're just looking for
speaker-1 (38:00)
because it
your ass.
speaker-2 (38:17)
for
more problems than you want. So you want to have a good mix of a base salary versus a commission plus bonus. That's probably the type of compensation plan that I see most often is a 50 % base and 50 %...
speaker-1 (38:30)
⁓
⁓
But
speaker-2 (38:37)
commission bonus type of structure that provides sales reps with some stability.
speaker-1 (38:40)
⁓
speaker-2 (38:45)
to make sure that you have a comp plan that incentivizes the right behaviors. for example, if you're a business model, want to have a higher percentage of new business, you want to make sure that your reps are paid on a higher tier for new business. And I've seen compensation plans work the opposite way. So I've seen a business say, we want our reps to go out and get new business, but they're not comped on.
So, and then they wonder why things aren't working. So you want to make sure that the compensation plan incentivizes the right behaviors that you're looking for. Whether it's new business, whether you want them to concentrate on an existing accounts, retention, you know, those are all different things that you can put into a compensation plan. But 50-50 is probably the one that I see most often and works best in a B2B scenario.
speaker-1 (39:36)
type of this.
speaker-2 (39:38)
And for a longer sales cycle, so for example, the cybersecurity company that I was mentioning before, 12 to 14 months, then your base salary is gonna be higher, right? It's gonna be higher on the front end because it takes a lot longer for that rep to make a sale.
speaker-1 (39:44)
of
speaker-0 (39:55)
Do you find training and sales owners, presidents to actually let their people do the selling? There's an old thing I used to, why would you have a dog in bark too? Do you find it getting delegating and training is something a lot of salespeople are afraid of? I mean, not salespeople, but owners.
speaker-2 (40:19)
absolutely. Because the owners and founders that I meet, they all have different backgrounds. It could be engineering, tech, and they've made some sales, but sales is not something that they're naturally... It doesn't come naturally to them. So the owners that I meet, they either don't have the time or the desire to do so or the skill set to provide that coaching and training.
speaker-1 (40:31)
⁓
speaker-2 (40:45)
And as a result, the sales reps are kind of left to their own devices and they're, you know, they're forced to figure things out on their own. They develop the poor habits, of course, leads to higher turnover because sales reps, you know, they're in the field most of the time on their own and they crave feedback. They want feedback. They want to know whether they're doing a good job or not. And if you're an owner who's leading a sales team,
speaker-1 (40:54)
and that ⁓
You.
speaker-2 (41:13)
You need to be out there providing
that coaching and guidance. if you can, you do have some options. You can hire a full-time sales manager or director. You might want to get a sales trainer in, a fractional sales leader like myself, but you need to get somebody to come in and provide that coaching and guidance for your team. Because if you're not providing that, raw talent can only go so far.
speaker-1 (41:18)
Then...
I'm.
then
speaker-0 (41:39)
So Darren, tell us a bit about sales acceleration. What's the scoop between you and sales acceleration?
speaker-2 (41:47)
I spent over 25 years in the corporate world and learned a lot. And after many, many years of business travel, I decided that I was going to venture out of my own. I still wanted to coach and I still wanted to work with business owners and help them out. I really didn't know.
speaker-1 (41:51)
and
I still do.
speaker-2 (42:06)
you know, what type of services I should be providing. I really didn't have any idea of pricing and contracts and marketing. So I was introduced to Sales Acceleration and it's a licensing agreement that I have with them. They provide me with all the resources and tools I need to help me help my client. So I use Sales Acceleration for all my templates. And we also have very good
speaker-1 (42:09)
And I have.
that are
The f-
speaker-2 (42:33)
any
the productivity partners like HubSpot and Pipe Drive for CRM. And then we've got some really cool AI partners. The other thing that's really, really nice is that I can also lean on fellow advisors within the network. So if I'm at over capacity or if a client says, look there and I absolutely need somebody who has experience in construction and if I might not have it,
speaker-1 (42:42)
and
speaker-2 (43:00)
I can refer that to another advisor. I know. So it's a really good network. Even though this is my own business, I have a tremendous amount of support with sales acceleration. And it's led me to kind of hit the ground running. I didn't have to spend months putting together a website and putting together marketing and things. So ⁓ it's been a really, really good partnership. And I absolutely love what I do. I wish I started this sooner.
speaker-1 (43:02)
That I.
My my my off.
speaker-0 (43:27)
Darren, you're in Mantic, being on Zoom. So in some ways that's global. Do you find your geography as happiest in Eastern Ontario? Do you work the world? Where do your clients find you and how?
speaker-1 (43:30)
I am.
speaker-2 (43:45)
I have clients all over across Canada and into the US. It's funny when I first started, I thought it would be primarily Ottawa, Eastern Ontario. It's a smaller world. It's a virtual world, as you said, Wayne. yeah, I have clients all over the place.
speaker-1 (44:01)
and
speaker-2 (44:01)
People can find me on LinkedIn, just search Darren Legault. There's not too many of us out there. Sales Acceleration, D Legault at salesacceleration.com and acceleration is spelled a little bit differently. It's X-C-E-L-E-R-A-T-I-O-N. My number is 613-858-1838. Send me a note if you're a business owner who is...
speaker-1 (44:07)
⁓
And
And
speaker-2 (44:30)
struggling with stagnant sales. I'd love to connect and see how I can help you. I really appreciate you guys having me on today.
speaker-1 (44:35)
And ⁓
speaker-0 (44:38)
Aaron, let go. I want to say thank you so much for giving us a great insight to understanding the sales. We've only scratched the surface because there's a lot more as you're describing. Hang on. I could ask these 10 other questions. So thank you for sharing with us. Wayne, as always, being a co-host, good to have you here and you the Knack for Business listeners. Appreciate you also being here too. So sales are stuck, running slow. You've been running at it for a while or just starting out.
Reach out to Darren. He can help get you ⁓ spun up and in the right direction, getting your playbook ready for your sales and have your team aimed the right direction.