Most coaches and consultants think a higher price is the fix. John Ray says the real fix is how you see the value you deliver. For service pros who work too hard for too little money.
GROWTH PILLAR: Sales & Revenue
WHO THIS IS FOR: SMB owners, solopreneurs, corporate escapees, leaders building systems
WHAT THEY'LL GAIN: A way to run a value conversation, a simple three-option price model, and a plan to raise prices without losing good clients.
You think your price is the problem. It's not. Until you see your own value, every price you set stays too low.
Many service pros undercharge and do not know why.
John Ray is a pricing and value advisor, the author of The Generosity Mindset, and the host of the Price and Value Journey podcast. In this conversation with Bernie Franzgrote, he explains why consultants, coaches, lawyers, and accountants fall into undercharging. The problem is rarely the price. It is how they see their own value. John shares a pricing strategy built on value conversations, good, better, best options, and smart value pricing that lets you raise prices without losing good clients. He also shows why pricing belongs in your growth strategy and your exit plan, and how it drives business growth. This episode is for service professionals who work too hard for too little money.
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Mentioned in this episode: Noemi Beres of Podcast Connections, who made the introduction.
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Bernie (00:22)
So question of the audience.
What if the reason you keep discounting your services has nothing to do with your price and everything to do with how you see your own value?
lot of skilled professionals are quietly leaving money on the table, not because they lack talent, but because they have not yet learned to price from the client's point of view. Today's guest has built a whole framework around fixing that, and it starts with a mindset shift that is a lot more generous than you might expect. John Ray helps consultants, coaches, lawyers, accountants, and other experts do something most of them find surprisingly hard. Charge what their work is actually worth.
He spent more than a decade advising solo and small firm professionals on pricing strategy, value conversations, and business development that feels natural. his work is built on a simple but powerful idea. That your clients are almost see more value in what you do than you do yourself. John is the author of the Generosity Mindset, a national bestseller that holds a five star rating across
More than eighty reviews on Amazon. He also hosts the Price and Value Journey podcast, where he has recorded more than twelve hundred episodes, exploring the issues that keep service professionals stuck.
When he's not advising clients or behind a microphone, John serves as a strategic planning facilitator and fractional CFO for a group of select firms. You can find him at johnray.co and on LinkedIn at JohnRay1. And John Ray is spelt at J O H N, not the French version, R A Y.co. And John Ray 1 is all one word and the number one.
John, absolute pleasure having you here. It's it's always good to be joined by someone that has a a a great smile and a velvet voice and a sense of humor. do you have a favorite quote or saying, sir?
John (02:04)
Well, you know what you you said it. I mean, that that others see more value in us than we see ourselves. I think that's true not just for clients, but it's true for life. I mean, just think about those times in your life when you had a a mentor or a teacher or someone early in your education that said something to you that
opened the door for you to see something about yourself. You know, so I think when we lean into what others see, these positive role models, it's a positive and it's true for our clients too.
Bernie (02:38)
what first made you realize that pricing was the real problem for most professional services?
John (02:42)
Well, I'm laughing because I I I had the illness, Bernie. you know, I I had the sickness and I needed to get it fixed myself. I mean I came out of corporate. it came out of a y you mentioned the the background I had, you know, high high dollar finance kind of background. And I didn't know how to price my own services. And that's true for a lot of people that come out of corporate. maybe slightly more embarrassing for me.
because of my background, but the point of the story is it's hard to price your expertise. you mentioned it in the in the opening. And so that's what got me passionate about it. I saw this problem with myself and my clients and realized that I needed help, they needed help, and it it sent me on this journey to understand what the issues were and what the problems were and learn how to fix it.
Bernie (03:32)
There's an adage about the mechanic who comes to the shipyard and the motor is you know where this is going, right? He taps it with the hammer and he says, Here's my bill, and it's like yeah, six or ten thousand dollars and person goes, Why should why is it so expensive? Well, you know, tapping with the hammer is one thing, but knowing where to tap is the totally different thing. How do you establish with a client then, where to tap the motor.
s a strategy. How do you associate that value? How do you build that value up so that it's priced right?
John (04:02)
Yeah, well see the here's the problem with that story. I love the story, but here's the problem with it. The problem is is that the mindset of that client in that story is simply about fixing the the problem, the broken down engine or what have you, and it's not the transformation that happens because of it.
And so I'm wondering whether that engineer, mechanic in that story had a great value conversation with them. What I'm getting at is that's where you have to go with clients i is to help them see and you help uncover with with a conversation with them where they see value in the transformation you offer.
It's not just fixing the motor, it's what you do can do after you fix the motor. And that's where the real value is. And it's taking that mental approach to client conversations and then learning how to price into that.
Bernie (05:03)
When you're setting up a a a pricing strategy, is it you know, here's here's a candy bar, I know what my fixed costs are to bring it into into position, et cetera. You know, if I sell enough of them, it the the cost is spread over time. But if you're in a service professional, it's not like you you you can sell a thousand candy bars to somebody. It's it's that one time. Do you offer a pricing strategy that is a a taste test?
And which builds on the next level and you're doing referrals and it becomes a retainer on demand. Is that how you structure it? Is that how you look at it? And how do you ascertain I'm gonna get back to the hammer on the on the on the motor though. How do you ascertain the dollar value? Like it's it's one thing just to add to it, I had there was a an accountant I I was talking with one time. We're setting up pricing for accountants. He says, Bernie.
There's an elasticity to pricing. And you know, you can keep stretching it, but at a certain point it snaps, right? So you've you've gone too far and you have to back it up. Well, with all that said, how do you how do you structure it? Do you structure it as a a one like a one time touch point and then build off of that? Well and how do you figure out the value?
John (06:11)
Yeah, well there's there's d two two points maybe to respond to that. One is is that you know, a product, a can of green beans, a car battery, the these are a whole lot different as you note when it comes to pricing than a service. A service that in some cases is highly personal.
that is customized to a a particular client and that that's it it is it's produced on a factory floor that exists between the ears of the service provider. Now here's the problem with that. And the problem is that that expertise is right next door to all those mindsets that hold us back in business. The imposter syndrome
The the the the mindset of inadequacy, the mindset of comparison. I'm never gonna be you know, the kind of professional Bernie is, so I can't charge what Bernie charges. You know, these these kind of mindsets and these little evil little voices that speak to us in our heads, right? and I call these warring neighbors. You know, they're bad neighbors. Our expertise in these voices. And so what
you have to do is get out of your own head and get into the heads of what your client where your clients see value. And that's where that value conversation I referenced comes in that referenced earlier comes in. it is lean lean in that direction. Now what what does that require to to answer your question? What that requires is
a dialogue with clients as to what it is they're looking for out of your services. See see our clients come to us and they don't know exactly what we do. I mean they they've got a vague sense of it but they n don't know exactly how we can serve them. they've got a reason for for calling, but they don't know all the capabilities we have. So part of it is having a
diagnostic conversation that gets into where they see value and what the value of that transformation is to them. So for example, if I go into a company and I say, well, you know, I can save you $50,000, it's not just the $50,000, it's what what am I able to do because of this newly found $50,000 I have in resources?
Maybe I'm able to hire a salesperson that I've been wanting to hire for quite some time. Well, what would that salesperson do for you? Well, the one I've got in mind, you know, can probably produce about three hundred thousand dollars in revenue a year. really? Wow. Well, what would that do for you? Well, it would put us in a whole new tier when it comes to, you know, the cash flow we generate and well, how much cash flow would that generate? You see, the point is is when you start asking these questions.
and digging in a little deeper, the value starts to expand and your ability to price expand expands as well because you've got a client that's got a greater willingness to pay because they see more value in you.
Bernie (09:10)
Very good point. So the the idea behind the generosity mindset. What does generosity have to do with raising your prices? How do how does that generosity? It almost sounds like it's you know like an oxymoron. I'm gonna be generous to you today when I'm gonna charge you more.
John (09:25)
Yeah, it it it does. And and it's a great question. And and I'm trying to get us past this narrow definition of generosity that we've that's been foisted upon us by we love them by but but by charitable organizations that it's all about, you know, j generosity is simply about, you know, how much money you give to others. It's not just that. our our generosity
comes in a lot of forms. In one way it comes in just is is the mindset, the approach that we have toward others. Are we coming at them with how we can serve and how what the perspective that they have, is that what we're doing? are we coming at them with truly a genera generous frame of reference where our first concern is that. And so my argument here is
And it's a it's a counterintuitive argument, as you say, but my argument here is that we if we come to our clients with that kind of mindset, they will see much more in us than we see, and we will benefit from that more than what we do when we don't have that mindset.
Bernie (10:32)
So when you're dealing with a client and they're you're helping them restructure their pricing, what are their red flags that yeah, the pricing's wrong? It's it's inadequate.
John (10:42)
Yeah, th th th there are a number of them and some of the some of them are aren't completely obvious. And I think this is the insidious little problem here that for professional services providers who don't really know that they have a pricing problem. I mean, for example, one of them is you're working too hard for too little money. And a lot of cl providers try to solve that problem
through just getting more clients. Well, getting more clients, if you're not working too hard, if you're working too hard for too little money and you get more clients, then what's gonna happen? I mean you're you're working even harder for too little money. So that's not the solution. another one is you accept pretty much any client that comes your way. And if you're doing that, your price is not high enough to filter out the price sensitive clients.
and so you're actually you've got a client base where you're over delivering to a lot of folks that are basically price sensitive cheapskates. I mean to be to be blunt and and and you're not you're giving them the same level of service that you're giving those that are raving fans of yours. That's not fair. it
It's not fair to those them. It's not fair to you. So another one is is is hourly billing, pricing by the hour, pricing by time. That one is another red flag as well. So I've identified a number of them that I that's and that's what I look for when I talk to a a client on an i an initial call is I ask them the kind of questions that
will help me understand where why they have inadequate pricing and where they might have it they don't even see it.
Bernie (12:21)
Would you find then that if they offer a package versus hourly billing and I get it, like I mean, if you're if if I go to see a lawyer for a sale of a house and it's you know s it stays very you know straightforward, you know, meeting, yeah, you you are you. I've read your documents, you know, photocopied some paper, mortgage company's happy, you know, the real estate taxes are paid, da da da.
versus, you left the old dog at the old house and that's causing a problem. Take care of the old dog, right? Which you know causes some churn in the conversation. And I I get the the pricing model working there. Is it is it a smarter move to have a package deal where you have you know your hourly hourly rate is kind of built into the thing and
Does that offer you more flexibility in structuring how you approach things and then finding the right market?
John (13:14)
Well what I yeah well what I suggest is that service providers offer options. So in that sense, yes to packages. but but not just one, offer three. So a good, better, best kind of model where a you're offering your basic, your kind of intermediate
and then your premium offering. And what you're doing there by doing that is you're offering different levels of service to different clients for of course three different prices. And by doing that, you you're increasing your appeal. I mean you're you're providing something for that basic customer, that one that just wants you know the basics of what you have.
You're also giving that client that wants everything that you've got to offer and wants it fast. you're giving them the premium offer that they're willing to pay for. So that in that sense, yes, I think that's the way to to do it. And I think what you'll find is there's a lot of models out there for this. I mean you see it in automobiles, the way they're they are positioned on a website. You see this on with the with the car manufacturers.
you see this in in food, fast food, you know, they've got these value meals and you know, their conventional offerings and then their premium limited time offer kind of meals. So you see this everywhere and you can't unsee it once you see it. And I think there's a reason why these big companies do it, it's because it works. It works. And so that's what I recommend.
service providers do.
Bernie (14:49)
So you're having a conversation with a client and you you're saying, listen, your your prices have to be adjusted. How do you convince them? You know, and it might, you know, they might say, Well, I'm just going to raise it by 2% or 3%, and you're going, no, no, no. You're going 25, maybe 50%. Because you know, it depends on the nature of the beast, right? How do you convince them that you know that is the smart move? Do you have them
You you contact the clients or the type of clients they normally deal with and again kinda have a Harry Potter sorting hat going, This is how they feel and this is how your price should reflect or like how how do you what's the magic behind that scene?
John (15:28)
Yeah, that's a great question. So if it were only so simple as as it just you know, we just raise it five or ten percent and and be done with it. It it it's it's not that simple and here here's why. I mean most clients that I run into are so their pricing is so out of kilter
relative to the value that they provide that they need some sort of they need intervention. they need they need they need kind of a complete makeover and and part of it is timing, Bernie. I mean when you've got somebody that comes out of corporate, they've been out of corpor in in corporate for thirty years, let's say, and they're in their fifties and they come out and they want to
Do some consulting or be a fractional executive or something like that. they don't have all the time in the world. And I mean, two percent a year, five percent a year? I mean, that's that's not gonna feed the bulldog, as they say in in my part of the world. So you know, the the the point of the story is is that you've got to look at where clients see value and that's where to start. Now
One of the ways that I do that with clients to begin with is I pull out all their reviews, all their testimonials, and I show them what clients say about them that has nothing to do with the service they provide. So like for example, got a CPA friend who, you know, one of his clients said in when I asked, you know, what has what has this person done for you, this professional done for you that's
made your business so successful. He didn't say anything about the tax return, although I'm sure it was fabulous, you know, perfect. He said, he calms me down. He says, I get a letter from the tax people that say I owe this and I know I don't owe that. And I get so mad. And he said, I call I call up Roger and he just helps me be calm. Well see, you know, that
That is value that that man sees. And he's looking for a business strategic partner that he can lean on when he's stressed about his business, when he's got issues that he wants to unload about. That's what he looks to Roger for. And see, that's that's the kind of thing that I look for with
what service professionals do, how they deliver their service, and the value that they give that they don't even know they're giving.
Bernie (17:53)
Getting that I think you just hit a a an a motive piece to the puzzle. And kind of with the ship scenario, the banging the motor, it's not just, you know, I'm feeling I'm feeling happy, my motor's back up and running. It's also the consequence of, you know, s subsequential consequences of, you know, now I can hire another salesperson. Now I can, you know, and I I can start tripling the sales of the company and and so forth, which has
overwhelming ripple effect. Mm-hmm. Do you bring in do you leverage an accountant to come in and say, listen, as as part of your part of your therapy with your clients, you get them to shift gears, right? And and see the light. Right.
John (18:33)
Right.
Bernie (18:34)
Cause it it's it's 'cause it does sound like a bit of therapy, right? You know, your ego, yeah, listen, you you're worth it. Two, you're you're having a good emotional impact on your clients.
Right, or i i it it's having what you want as an impact and in finances. Do you bring an accountant in to help kind of add to that add to that course? Is is it a team or is it just yourself and you have the have the client then try it and you know, walk the walk a little bit and see what the outcomes are.
John (19:02)
I'm gonna offend some of my some of the accountants in your audience, but the accountants need this as badly as their clients do. A lot of them are charging by the hour. And so I don't have any accountant partners that come in on this. I think a lot of them need the help themselves and don't don't admit it. Or they've got a and I'll tell you what, I know some of them are screaming at their phone right now while they're listening to this.
show they're saying I've got fixed pricing. Well maybe you've got fixed pricing that's dressed up in a tuxedo that's really hourly pricing dressed up in a tuxedo. I mean in other words you've you've backed into what you think the number of hours is going to be and you've set a fixed price, but you're still underpriced relative to the value you deliver. So no, it's not really an accounting function. It it's it's really more of a
value discovery function. It's it's where how do I discover where the value is? let me tell you what that mechanic should have told that ship owner. Instead of saying I knew where to hit hit you know what screw to turn or you know where to where what piece of the motor to to hit, he should have said, Well, I guess I saved you
hundreds of thousands of dollars for that fruit that was going to start rotting in in the rest of the ship that you're supposed to deliver day after tomorrow, right? See, that's where the value is. It's not in fixing the the engine per se. It's what that now repaired ship is able to do that they weren't able to do before. And that's not an accounting question.
that's a value discovery question.
Bernie (20:39)
Like that. I like that a lot. If someone is starting out, like yeah, there's like li major accounting firms out there that do audits and they you know they do business analysis, right? And yeah, there's two or three of them that are fairly large. And if you've ever worked in in a healthcare institution in in Canada, you go through an annual audit and usually one of these one of these companies comes in and you know charges a small fortune.
Sometimes that's interesting. That's another that's another story just to get into that. Or if you're a smaller firm of that of that type of nature, or you're a smaller firm, how do you how do you go up toe-to-toe against something that is large corporate and you're not large corporate? Do you define yourself as a boutique, in which case you're niche and you're really good at that niche, or is is is it how
It's how you project at the same time as well as the value. Like you can do the value proposition regardless where you're at. But how how how do you put that how do you put that on a shingle that will draw the right audience?
John (21:40)
Well, I think you put your finger on part of it. Part of it is is that niche, that that focusing in so that people understand what your expertise is and and you have a better sense of those clients that you serve. So i if if you are a
I'll use an extreme example. If you're a typewriter repair person, so repairing typewriters, you're you don't have you know, a huge market. But what you've got is a very dedicated group of users, right? The people that are still using typewriters, they're gonna keep using them because they like the
feel of that or they whatever for whatever reason, right? Sentiment, whatever the reason. The point of the story is is that it's pretty easy to become the authority on typewriter repair because you're that person. You are the person. And this is true for, you know, a lot of different aspects of professional services. When you become the CPA, the accountant,
the chartered accountant that knows everything there is to know about veterinary practices, your value goes high because if I'm a veterinarian, I know if I'm talking to Bernie, the the accountant who focuses on veterinary practices, that I'm gonna get not just my books done. I'm not just gonna get my taxes done. I'm gonna get a look into the best practices of what all these veterinary practices do. That's worth money.
That's worth more than just your typical accountant. So that that I think, yes, it focusing makes you an authority in whatever you're focused on. And that's one mistake that a lot of service providers make is they w they want to appeal to a lot of different people because they don't want to turn anybody away. But what that does is
That makes you lukewarm and nobody nobody is going to pay a premium for lukewarm.
Bernie (23:37)
if you have someone that is a an introvert or a wallflower or they are having an imposter syndrome, how do you get them comfortable now going, Okay, listen, I this is your value, this is what your clients wanna wanna pay. And it's a good filter so you don't get you know
the wrong type of client. In other words, one that's more worth more not worth the hassle, lack of better words. How do you get them past that? you know, go for it.
John (24:03)
So i the client the the service provider is feeling this. The service provider is maybe introverted because of it, maybe or maybe. Yeah, so I love this question. I love this question because here's what I want to say directly to you. If that describes you who you're listening to this podcast with Bernie and I, this conversation. You're better equipped to have these conversations than a lot of extroverts.
Let me say that again. You're better equipped to have these conversations with clients than a lot of extroverted, backslapping salespeople who don't stop to listen. they come in with a lot of hoorah, and they don't have the patience to talk to a client, just have a conversation and just ask questions, just be curious.
Be curious instead of certain. and this is one thing that introverts are especially good at is listening and letting other people dominate and sometimes a conversation. And that's okay when you're talking to a client and you're wanting to hear where what their hopes, dreams, fears, anxieties are.
Because that helps you get to where the value is. So what I would say to you is you're equipped and the question is just leaning into that and learning how to exercise that muscle of listening and asking questions based in curiosity.
Bernie (25:29)
So you convince the person now to raise their prices or adjust their pricing models.
If they have a an existing client they like and it's and it's a worthwhile client to host or hold on to, what are the typical mistakes people make when they're announcing the adjustment, you know, the pricing adjustment? The hammer, the hammer's gold, gold plated now.
John (25:50)
Right. Right. Well, the biggest mistake they make is not doing their their homework ahead of time. So here's here's the typical scenario. they keep their pricing low for so long that one day they get frustrated and they're just gonna raise prices across the board. while I applaud the in the the intention
the the method will backfire because what you've done is you skipped a really big step and that is you haven't had conversations with your clients about where they see value and why they're still doing business with you. Maybe you have added a lot of capability that wasn't there when the engagement first started. Maybe there's a lot of reasons that client is doing business with you that you don't even know because you haven't asked.
it's like the guy I mentioned earlier that, you know, had the accountant that calmed him down. You know, he's not going anywhere. he needs somebody to calm him down. he's already said that. the point is is that when you see where your clients see value, first, then you can price into that. Because here's let's look at it from the client point of view. If you w when
I get that letter.
that my business advisor is raising their price, what's the first thing I'm going to do? Well, I I'm I'm gonna have what I call you know a a a val a value question. Am I getting more value out of this relationship than at this newly raised price? And
That's what everybody does that opens up an email, opens up a letter that says this, that's the first thing in their head is am I getting more value out of out of this relationship, this product, this service, than at the then the new price that I'm being asked to pay? And if they are, it's a it's a much easier pill to swallow. In fact, I may say, you know, if I'm
The guy who needs to get calmed down, I may say, you know, Roger deserves every penny. So that's really, I think, the biggest mistake people make is not doing their research ahead of time. And you know, when you're going to raise prices, it's a s it's a several month process. it it's a process to
To do that discovery, particularly if you haven't done it before, but hopefully you're doing it as you go along, but it's a process that requires several months to unfold if you're going to do it successfully.
Bernie (28:10)
Is part of the deal then for your clients when they're talking to their clients, because there's a price change coming up, that they have to pitch it. so you know, say again, you know, how much fruit is gonna rot in your vessel if you don't move it, right? So i is it is it gonna be that whole process and do you help them construct that pitch to or help them to understand it and say, Listen.
You know, gather the information in because you know, they're your contacts and you're really happy with them. So you you don't have an issue with that, but you you try to get paid what you're worth. Mm-hmm. Do you help them frame it? Or is this something that you know, if the person says, Well, the price is too high, you know, and you know, and you like the person and they like you, but the price is too high. You know, in other words, they they can't meet it. have you ever had anybody exceed the threshold of payability?
John (29:00)
No. In a in a word, i i i if they have they haven't told me that. the you know, in terms of the folks I work with. I mean the the problem is not people are too aggressive, is they're too timid. That's the problem. I mean I I had a friend of mine who had a professional services firm and he he made a big deal out of how he he never raised anyone's original price.
I mean, and that was like his marketing thing. And I mean, after a while you've got what what you you've got a golden cage. I mean, y you you have a situation where you're you are backed yourself into a corner. I see that a lot more than I see pricing too high. yes, now people will say that to you. I get that. They will say that to you, but then what you've got to do is
Bring it back to the comparison to value. I mean, too high relative to what? I mean, it so my repair job on your ship is too high relative to what? What's the what's the value of this cargo that's rotting over in the cargo hold?
See, that's the that's the thing, right? It it so you've got to relate it always back to value. Price always gets related back to client perceived value. And that's where you've got to hang your hat when it comes to not just your a price increase, but your initial prices anywhere along the spectrum, it always gets back to client perceived value.
Bernie (30:24)
How often do you review that? How often do you ask your clients, you know, today I'm charging X? Five years from now, if you're the typewriter guy, you know, and typewriters are in decline, and you're like, no one wants me, and you know, there's lots of us out there. And then an and then another ten years out, all of a sudden, well, there's not a lot of us out there, but I'm still here, right? How often how often do you kind of revisit your your pricing model? Is is it annually? Is it
What type of cycle do you use?
John (30:51)
Well, I recommend that that clients do it at least annually for every one of their clients. And you know, I I I had I worked with a bookkeeper one time who she came up with a really ingenious way to do it. what she did was she had a year to year contract. So all her engagements lasted a year.
And she said she told the client that at the end of the year we'll revisit. And if you want to renew and I want to renew, then we'll figure out how we're going to continue to do business in the following year. And what that opened up, th this is somebody that had great confidence in her work, with good with justification because all her clients loved her. And so
What she did was at the end of every year, she said she would raise the prices just a little bit, or or maybe a lot, depending on the client, depending on what what she was doing for the client, right? And the value the client saw. Maybe the scope had changed or something like that. But the point is is that she had created a place for there to be a consideration of an adjustment in price. And
I think the biggest mistake that professional service providers make is they don't make pricing part of their growth strategy. you know, they don't they don't review it regularly. They only review it when they need the money or when they get frustrated or you know, they they're they're not making enough or whatever. And you you need to make it part of your growth strategy.
Bernie (32:26)
I guess at the end of the day you'd also want to do that if you want to sell the business. Mm-hmm. Right. And it you have to aside from showing profit, right? Because if someone's buying it and they're buying your book, so to speak, if you're in insurance terms, yeah, you have a client base. So it's it's it provides value of your business then, right? Down down the road.
John (32:47)
Yeah, I boy, I I'm I'm glad you bringing up all the great questions, Bernie. I love this. So
Bernie (32:52)
Come
on John, you bring it out of me. You bring it out easy.
John (32:54)
So here's the thing. When a when when if you've got if you're headed toward an exit and you can show a buyer that you have a consistent record of price increases and a strategy around that, what are you showing them? What you're really showing them is that you have got a a market and a client base that sees great value in what you have to offer. What
buyer doesn't want that. there's a little Nebraska farm boy, his name is Warren Buffett. And what what that little Nebraska farm boy who think knows a thing or two about businesses, well he said that if you've the single most important factor in his analysis of a business is pricing power.
the ability to raise their prices on a regular basis. And he went so far as to say if you've got to have a prayer meeting before you raise your price, then you don't have much of a business. And so the the I think he was exaggerating to make a point, but but the but he that's how important price increases and and pricing are to someone like that who
you know, has done quite well in identifying great businesses. So if you're go headed toward an exit, make pricing part of the strategy that is involved in maximizing the value of your company when you exit.
Bernie (34:16)
Who do you see as a good role model for doing this right?
John (34:20)
Well, here's one. Netflix. So Netflix has I think they've raised prices something like I don't know, twelve times in the last eight years. I mean some people would say they raised their price every other week. That's not true. but here's what Netflix has done. They've made it
a regular part of their strategy. And the investors that follow Netflix, they're as interested in the their pricing strategy as they are their growth, you know, their volume growth strategy. They've made pricing part of their growth and and and part of what investors can expect. And the other thing Netflix does is when they send out
those notices of price increases, they're always relating it back to value. When you just read read what they say. They say, you know, we're raising our prices. we want to continue to deliver the kind of quality programming that we always have. they never talk about their cost. They never talk about, we just need to make more money. They never talk about themselves. They talk about what they deliver to clients, the value they deliver to clients.
That's what they're re referencing. And what they're reminding you of is, yeah, I may not be totally happy with paying more money, but I'm I've got a mountain of choices when it comes to programming when I open up that Netflix app. and so I think that's one model that that people can can a successful model that proves the point.
Bernie (35:50)
If someone's listening to this podcast, who would be the ideal person to connect with you? you know, and who do you want to partner with?
John (35:57)
Well, thank you for that question. I mean it it it it's it's that service provider, coach, consultant, fractional executive that's pricing what's between their ears, and they lost the joy in their business. You know, they've they're been in business now five, six years maybe, and when they started out everything was great and they are now
They basically built a job for themselves.
and they're working too hard for too little money and they don't feel like they've got the best fit clients that they oughta have. those are the folks I work with and can really help. because they've they know they need to make changes and they're frustrated and they want to get back to where they were when they started the business, where they had that joy.
of of flipping on the computer every day or coming into work that they had that that joy and they they just no longer have that and it's because they've got th they they their practice is really turned upside down with poor fit clients that are not paying adequate pricing.
Bernie (36:59)
John, I want I want to say thank you. And for the listeners, by the way, John's book is called The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices. You can grab it at all major book retailers or head straight to the generositymindset.com website. And John also has a free set of value conversation questions waiting for you. John, what's that website location or is it off your main webpage?
John (37:25)
Yeah, you can go to the generosity mindset dot com. That takes you to the specific web page on my site where you can find several freebies there, including the the red flags of inadequate pricing we discussed earlier, and sample questions for having a value conversation with clients, one that can give you some ideas that you can adopt in your own business. Free to download. And you d doesn't require an email. So just f
feel welcome to go there and download it and try it for yourself.
Bernie (37:56)
Perfect. And so head over to johnray.co to learn more about John's work or find the Price and Value Journey wherever you listen to podcasts, which is his podcast that he has out there. If this conversation's made you rethink what your expertise is worth, you know what? Share it with somebody in your network and get a hold of John.
also A big thank you to Noemi Beres from Podcast Connections for making this introduction happen to Knack 4 Business. We really appreciate it. And John here's to ~ help
Yeah, so if if you're exiting corporate universe and you're trying to go, what should I be charging? to I am charging, but it's like you're in the gilded cage, John's here to let you out of that cage and to help you grow from there. And check the knack4business.com website. It's knack k n a c k the number 4 business dot com to reach us. Use our chat bot to find out about other podcasts or book a call.